Hyrogen as fuel

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Johnsilver

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Why can't all fossil fuels be replaced with hydrogen gas? Cars, coal power stations etc.
It's the most abundant element in the universe, renewable, and burns very clean; water vapor.
 
Johnsilver said:
Why can't all fossil fuels be replaced with hydrogen gas? Cars, coal power stations etc.
It's the most abundant element in the universe, renewable, and burns very clean; water vapor.
Click to expand...

It takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen. So the only clean way to make it is to use wind/solar/hydro or some other renewable energy to produce the hydrogen.

Then, storing it is a biatch.
 
bekdik said:
How much would it cost to produce the hydrogen and where would you get it from?
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Pipe it from the sun?;)
Or
Large surface solar plants. Water. Electrolysis

It must be cheaper than:
Building a coal mine
Mining coal
Transporting the coal
Rehabilitating the environment once the mine is exhausted.
 
Johnsilver said:
Pipe it from the sun?;)
Or
Large surface solar plants. Water. Electrolysis

It must be cheaper than:
Building a coal mine
Mining coal
Transporting the coal
Rehabilitating the environment once the mine is exhausted.
Click to expand...

It's not cheaper though. Solar plants are currently more expensive than coal plants.
 
Why can't all fossil fuels be replaced by elephant farts? Srsly think about it man.
 
Johnsilver said:
Pipe it from the sun?;)
Or
Large surface solar plants. Water. Electrolysis

It must be cheaper than:
Building a coal mine
Mining coal
Transporting the coal
Rehabilitating the environment once the mine is exhausted.
Click to expand...

Pipe it from the sun? Guess it is easier to just create our own sun in a lab, nuclear fusion etc.
Large surface solar plants. I like this idea, but unfortunately the manufacturing process of solar panels/ plants is not really environmentally friendly :(
Electrolysis requires more energy than what you will eventually gain from the Hydrogen fuel.

Cheaper than:
Coal mine? Not likely this is the cheapest source of energy, par hydro-electricity.
Transporting the coal? Not really an issue as most power stations is build in the middle of coal fields.
Rehabilitating mines? Too many loop holes in the system for companies to just pay a fine or declare bankruptcy and the problems persists. So the costly aspect of this can be debated. You will however always have coal mines even if not for power production, but for carbon to make steel for example. Or most of the chemicals required for those solar farm ;)
 
BCO said:
It's not cheaper though. Solar plants are currently more expensive than coal plants.
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Is that what the coal mines say? Or for real?
The fossil fuel industry wouldn't take kindly to the idea..
 
BCO said:
It takes more energy to make hydrogen than you get from burning the hydrogen. So the only clean way to make it is to use wind/solar/hydro or some other renewable energy to produce the hydrogen.

Then, storing it is a biatch.
Click to expand...
Storing as a liquid?
 
BCO said:
It's not cheaper though. Solar plants are currently more expensive than coal plants.
Click to expand...


you probably right as Coal plants have been in use for alot longer and the processes have become cheaper. Im sure in teh beginning it was expensive.


Coal burning plants are so harmful to our fragile world, we need more natural forms of energy. Solar being one form.
 
cerebus said:
Why can't all fossil fuels be replaced by elephant farts? Srsly think about it man.
Click to expand...
Methane as a fuel source are being investigated all over the world. It is as specially a good option in countries with a large amount of stabled animals. It still produces green house emissions but is considered to be a carbon neutral process.
 
Johnsilver said:
That's still a carbon type fuel like fossil fuel. Same problems
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Not really, since it is directly produced from plant material that in turn converted CO2 into energy. The eventual release of CO2 of burning the Methane is considered a closed cycle and is therefore a carbon neutral process.
 
Yeah i'm just making a point... It's quite useless to make grand utopian proposals without a serious discussion of the technologies and limitations that have prevented it from becoming a reality.
 
werries2 said:
Not really, since it is directly produced from plant material that in turn converted CO2 into energy. The eventual release of CO2 of burning the Methane is considered a closed cycle and is therefore a carbon neutral process.
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But so is coal? (I'm a layman:o) Give or take a few million years of free storage.
Still a greenhouse gas.
 
Biological hydrogen can be produced in an algae bioreactor. In the late 1990s it was discovered that if the algae are deprived of sulfur it will switch from the production of oxygen, i.e. normal photosynthesis, to the production of hydrogen.

It seems that the production is now economically feasible by trespassing the 7–10 percent energy efficiency (the conversion of sunlight into hydrogen) barrier[8].

Biological hydrogen can be and is produced in bioreactors that utilize feedstocks other than algae, the most common feedstock being waste streams. The process involves bacteria feeding on hydrocarbons and exhaling hydrogen and CO2. The CO2 can be sequestered successfully by several methods, leaving hydrogen gas. A prototype hydrogen bioreactor using waste as a feedstock is in operation at Welch's grape juice factory in North East, Pennsylvania.
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from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production
 
Johnsilver said:
Why can't all fossil fuels be replaced with hydrogen gas? Cars, coal power stations etc.
It's the most abundant element in the universe, renewable, and burns very clean; water vapor.
Click to expand...

Plus you can get hydrogen from natural gas, that some have pumped into their house. This can power you car and house!
 
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