I have failed again.

DJ...

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Joined
Jan 24, 2007
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70,287
All you need to do is add some good quality chicken stock.

But that's exactly what he's trying to make...:confused:

Picard - there is no need to add chicken stock. You're making the same thing with all of your ingredients. Here are a few tips:

1 - use a pressure cooker and allow the pressure cooker to cool before opening it. Do not let out the steam as this releases volatile flavour compounds that are built up with all of the pressure.

2 - you can roast the bones and meat a little before using. Just as it begins to char, take it out and use those bones (with a little meat on) to make your stock/broth.

3 - use fresh herbs such as origanum, parsley, thyme, rosemary, sage - but be careful not to overdo it with the stronger herbs as they can over-power the final product. You can add plenty of parsley though.

4 - remember to season with salt. This is more than likely why your broth was bland. Taste and season as you go along. It will take a lot of salt but it's usually a very large pot so don't worry about the quantity. Salt helps to bolster flavour if used correctly, without making it taste salty. The only issue with adding salt from the get-go is that it does make the final product cloudy, but unless you're in a michelin starred restaurant, that really doesn't matter. Adding salt along the way allows the sodium chemical reactions to take place which adds new flavour compounds to every aspect of the dish.

5 - cook your veg first to bring out some of the natural flavour compounds and remember to season at this stage too.

6 - understand why you are using vegetables - you use them for aromatics and a little flavour too. Therefore you want very aromatic vegetables. My preferred combination is: onions (quartered), carrots (chunky), celery (diced fine), and leeks (diced roughly). My herbs and spices: whole black peppercorns, bay leaves, thyme, parsley, and a few garlic cloves that i just crush with a knife.

7 - the trick is a very long cooking process if you don't have a pressure cooker. The stock will need to simmer for about 8 hours for a decent stock, topping up with water as and when necessary to keep the bones submerged. You need quite a lot of bones. Don't listen to those telling you that 3 hours is far too much - it simply isn't in this case. Protein denaturing in liquids takes a considerable amount of time and the flavour inside the bones takes an age to break down and incorporate into your soup. In a pressure cooker it will take about 3 to four hours.

8 - if you put it in the fridge then the fat will congeal on the surface which will make it really simple to skim off. This will prevent it from turning rancid while you store it. This is a very important step. And while it is cooking you will need to skim the scum off of the top of the stock.

9 - if you want to intensify the flavour then you can reduce the stock by boiling it after you've drained and skimmed it. You can reduce it to whatever intensity you like.

10 - if you want to freeze the stock, then I suggest freezing it in ice-trays as you cannot re-freeze it once thawed. The ice-trays means you can use them one-by-one. It can be frozen for around 3 months.

11 - a bit of a chef's secret is chicken feet. They are really good for making chicken stock and they fit in the pot very easily. Because their cartilage breaks down into gelatin, it helps to add considerable body to the stock and also makes it very easy to use afterwards. It also helps to prevent that layer of fat forming on the surface after being in the fridge. BUT, and this is a big but - this stock will contain fat nonetheless and therefore won't last as long in the freezer. I wouldn't want to hold on to this stock for more than a month in the freezer.

12 - if we really want to be pedantic about this, simmering chicken meat is how you make a technically correct broth, whereas boiling bones (with a tiny amount of meat on the bone) is how you make a stock. I prefer to blur those lines as I don't see the point in separating these flavours from each other.

I always have this around in the freezer as I use it in a number of dishes. You can use it as a base for soups where you can then get adventurous or in sauces. You can replace half the milk in a bechamel with chicken stock and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. You can replace the water used to make rice with the stock. In fact one of my favourite dishes is pilaf...
 
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Mars

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Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
11,321
But that's exactly what he's trying to make...:confused:

...
7 - the trick is a very long cooking process if you don't have a pressure cooker. The stock will need to simmer for about 8 hours for a decent stock, topping up with water as and when necessary to keep the bones submerged. You need quite a lot of bones. Don't listen to those telling you that 3 hours is far too much - it simply isn't in this case. Protein denaturing in liquids takes a considerable amount of time and the flavour inside the bones takes an age to break down and incorporate into your soup. In a pressure cooker it will take about 3 to four hours.
.....

Thats the thing. You don't need to make a stock every time you make soup, and if you do its done separately from all the other ingredients. The last thing you want to do is cook your veggies and other ingredients for a prolonged time.

If you have already made your stock or you are using stock cubes (nothing wrong imo) you should not be cooking your soup for more than 45 in or so depending on the chunkiness of your ingredients. The finer you chop the shorter the cooking time.

Yea and you should always brown your meat before adding it. I always brown the meat with the onions as a first step to any soup.
 

DJ...

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Jan 24, 2007
Messages
70,287
stock cubes (nothing wrong imo)

Ever checked the ingredients list of a stock cube? Salt, flavourants and preservatives. There is not a single piece of meat in those things. They are disgusting in my opinion. The problem here is that people associate a stock cube flavour with chicken stock, which is unfortunate...

Yea and you should always brown your meat before adding it. I always brown the meat with the onions as a first step to any soup.

Just to add something here - with a red meat based stock, you are doing this to begin the Maillard reaction, which helps to bolster meaty flavours and create an enzyme reaction within the meat. For chicken on the other hand, you're really just trying to get a roasted flavour if anything - the Maillard reaction doesn't really apply in this case. So you can see that it's not always necessary to brown your meat for a chicken stock as its a flavour preference. However in a beef stock its pretty essential...
 
Last edited:

I.am.Sam

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Joined
Jun 14, 2011
Messages
92,151
@DJ most of the packet stuff has no "real" ingredients in them

its just the flavour

i wont know what stock flavour tastes like cause my mum normally makes the packet soup or the creamy corn one
 

Mars

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 4, 2006
Messages
11,321
Ever checked the ingredients list of a stock cube? Salt, flavourants and preservatives. There is not a single piece of meat in those things. They are disgusting in my opinion. The problem here is that people associate a stock cube flavour with chicken stock, which is unfortunate...

whyyaallwaysgottaruineverything :mad:

Tho I do agree, I would associate that with powdered soups rather than stock... Some stock is not as bad as all that tho..
 

DJ...

Banned
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
70,287
whyyaallwaysgottaruineverything :mad:

Tho I do agree, I would associate that with powdered soups rather than stock... Some stock is not as bad as all that tho..

The new concentrated liquids do have actual meat though, although I'm not a fan of their gummy corn-based thickeners. They do taste far better than stock cubes though. I recently tried the Ina Paarmans stock sachets and they weren't half bad to be honest...
 

cerebus

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Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
49,172
But that's exactly what he's trying to make...:confused:

Picard - there is no need to add chicken stock. You're making the same thing with all of your ingredients. Here are a few tips:

1 - use a pressure cooker and allow the pressure cooker to cool before opening it. Do not let out the steam as this releases volatile flavour compounds that are built up with all of the pressure.

2 - you can roast the bones and meat a little before using. Just as it begins to char, take it out and use those bones (with a little meat on) to make your stock/broth.

3 - use fresh herbs such as origanum, parsley, thyme, rosemary, sage - but be careful not to overdo it with the stronger herbs as they can over-power the final product. You can add plenty of parsley though.

4 - remember to season with salt. This is more than likely why your broth was bland. Taste and season as you go along. It will take a lot of salt but it's usually a very large pot so don't worry about the quantity. Salt helps to bolster flavour if used correctly, without making it taste salty. The only issue with adding salt from the get-go is that it does make the final product cloudy, but unless you're in a michelin starred restaurant, that really doesn't matter. Adding salt along the way allows the sodium chemical reactions to take place which adds new flavour compounds to every aspect of the dish.

5 - cook your veg first to bring out some of the natural flavour compounds and remember to season at this stage too.

6 - understand why you are using vegetables - you use them for aromatics and a little flavour too. Therefore you want very aromatic vegetables. My preferred combination is: onions (quartered), carrots (chunky), celery (diced fine), and leeks (diced roughly). My herbs and spices: whole black peppercorns, bay leaves, thyme, parsley, and a few garlic cloves that i just crush with a knife.

7 - the trick is a very long cooking process if you don't have a pressure cooker. The stock will need to simmer for about 8 hours for a decent stock, topping up with water as and when necessary to keep the bones submerged. You need quite a lot of bones. Don't listen to those telling you that 3 hours is far too much - it simply isn't in this case. Protein denaturing in liquids takes a considerable amount of time and the flavour inside the bones takes an age to break down and incorporate into your soup. In a pressure cooker it will take about 3 to four hours.

8 - if you put it in the fridge then the fat will congeal on the surface which will make it really simple to skim off. This will prevent it from turning rancid while you store it. This is a very important step. And while it is cooking you will need to skim the scum off of the top of the stock.

9 - if you want to intensify the flavour then you can reduce the stock by boiling it after you've drained and skimmed it. You can reduce it to whatever intensity you like.

10 - if you want to freeze the stock, then I suggest freezing it in ice-trays as you cannot re-freeze it once thawed. The ice-trays means you can use them one-by-one. It can be frozen for around 3 months.

11 - a bit of a chef's secret is chicken feet. They are really good for making chicken stock and they fit in the pot very easily. Because their cartilage breaks down into gelatin, it helps to add considerable body to the stock and also makes it very easy to use afterwards. It also helps to prevent that layer of fat forming on the surface after being in the fridge. BUT, and this is a big but - this stock will contain fat nonetheless and therefore won't last as long in the freezer. I wouldn't want to hold on to this stock for more than a month in the freezer.

12 - if we really want to be pedantic about this, simmering chicken meat is how you make a technically correct broth, whereas boiling bones (with a tiny amount of meat on the bone) is how you make a stock. I prefer to blur those lines as I don't see the point in separating these flavours from each other.

I always have this around in the freezer as I use it in a number of dishes. You can use it as a base for soups where you can then get adventurous or in sauces. You can replace half the milk in a bechamel with chicken stock and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. You can replace the water used to make rice with the stock. In fact one of my favourite dishes is pilaf...

See what I mean? There's the answer you needed.
 

DJ...

Banned
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
70,287
Thought I'd revive this for the winter and add that sprinkling on some skimmed milk powder will assist in making a helluva good chicken stock. Just sprinkle it on before roasting the chicken feet/bones/leftovers. The additional protein helps in creating major Maillard reactions and you get a very full-bodied stock...
 
K

kingrob

Guest
LOL.. is this thread for when the captain takes too many brandies & do the funky chicken?
 
P

Picard

Guest
LOL.. is this thread for when the captain takes too many brandies & do the funky chicken?

Dude, when I've taken too many brandies I usually pass out on the couch and whatever I had on the stove ended up burnt.
 
P

Picard

Guest
My flat smells like a caveman's kitchen at the moment because I fell asleep while something was on the stove. :mad:
 
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