I hope the machines learnt their lesson

marinusmaurice

New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
3
I want voice concern of the level to which online tracking has spiralled out of hand and measures to bring it back to acceptable standards.
Views.. my own. and maybe 99% of others as well. Ok, they are the views of at least another two people. Whilst we all can agree that data gathering on certain levels and to certain amounts are quite necesarry as it aids the functioning of institutions such as government , banks etc.

Mass gathering of data erodes privacy.It can be used for blackmail, fraud, espionage, stalking, to install fear, uncertainty etc. My mind casts back to one Aaron Swartz RIP.. Errors in data collection can cause unfair or biased opinions, unfair extra charges. Retention of information or lack of true agreed upon updating could also lead to the excessive punishment for a misdeameanor long atoned for.
Harassment of individuals by law enforcement is met with harsh backlash from the general public and press.
As with other conflicting demands in society a balance is required between the unrestricted use and abuse of data at hand and complete secrecy. Before storing of masses of data on electronic media become the norm, think how difficult it would have been to piece together information on one person. The increase in storage capacity, the speed of retrieval of this information and the lucrative finance avenues that comes along with it, have tipped the scales too far in the favour of the information gatherers and hoarders at the detriment to personal privacy.

Profiles can now be so easily slung together by not only government or law related bodies but the anyone who knows how to use a computer and bit more. These profiles contains extremely sensitive information about our personal lives to the point with the increase of interest and the rewards it yields in the field of artifical intelliigence and deep learning through crafty use of what is know as machine learning. For those that dont know what I'm refering to think of it as .. mankind is messing with the potential to let the machines do all his thinking for him and before he knows it he will be as obsolete as the dodo as he will not be needed anymore.

Moving on, bank and tax records, our religious attendings, political affiliations, our telephone calls, reading habits, medical records, psychological history, our choice of beliefs, criminal history, guilty pleasures etc all are but a small subset of the large pool of information that is traded along with what is billed as "targeted ads". A demographic area, a group of people with similar interests, entire countries and your own choices and be subtly changed for you over the course of time. For example. Imagine a group of people who lives in a certain demographic area over the course of six months will be slowly fed targeted ads with subliminal messages to sway their political opinion on an issue.
I personally found myself nearly caught in such a trap although my experience was on a different matter.

Society will need to adapt to the new situation. Embrace the fact that for far too long have we now not only accepted that we have allowed advertising and marketing companies to run amok with their lack of regard for the fellow human being while chasing after the dollar. For far too long have we also allowed companies whose browsers we use to access the internet to be lax in their responsibilities to ensure a secure and safe experience when we browse for information. And to my fellow kinsmen, the programmers, we need to be more vigilent with regards for the security of information (if it was your money then you would've double checked for software loopholes etc). And lastly.. government and those that makes and passes laws. What is happening in the land of the electonic device is orders of magnitude worse than the corona virus. Yes.. i know perhaps not as many people died when they saw an earily targeted ad appear literally a minute after they discuss a topic with a friend, but the TRUST, SAFETY has been taken away and filled with UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT. And we all know how long it takes to trust after its been broken. Think of it this way. will you walk naked infront of your laptop with the camera uncovered after seeing that ad?

I'm once again drawing on text to help express my views.
Whilst the companies may finally do something about their seedy ways which has netted them billions (*cough* google* cough*) - yes I will call a spade a spade.because that is what it is, we have to bare in mind that many times comapnies appear to turn around on the immoral ways, but then only to find out that it was merely a transitioning to a new immorality. What we need is laws clearly specifying the boundaries of advertising and tracking engagement and the punishment it carries if it is broken. My view is to not only limit collection, but also the volumn of storage of said information as well as the access to said information should be regulated. Because its honestly the VERY WILD WILD WEST "FREE FOR ALL" when it comes to collecting and trading of ones doings.
These things should be accounted for:

1) People should be informed about the type of information that is kept on them. i.e. Whilst someone may know that a clothing department store has their name and address, the person should also BE INFORMED of any extra information that is had by the store .. e.g. medical, education, and even criminal records.

2) People have the right to timeous access to ALL information held about them down to the last dot on the "i".

3) People have the right to timeous corrections to their data to be made by either their own request or if it is in their favour to have it done. If its done in their favour they should be notified with the nature of the changes incuding why it was changed.

4) People have the right to request the removal of information related to their distant past to avoid excessive punishment and being denied fair opportunity. Whilst we would all wish to truly believe that bias doesn't play a role in peoples decision making given the facts, we know through history that this is not the case. So if you did the crime and you did the time. .then the past shouldnt be allowed to have an opportunity to sway someone's second (3rd, 4th etc ) chance away from them

5) People have the right to specify restrictions on the use of any information that they divulge willingly or unwillingly. If one's data is specified to be used then the maximum reach that it should be allowed to have is the same as that of an aggregated pool of information to which it has to belong. i.e. A persons information should never be singled out.

6) Each access to information on a person should be recorded and made avaailable t o that person for inspection

7)Transfers of information should be recorded. Any tampering of information or unwarranted loss of it , then said company should be held liable as its their responsility to ensure the safety of our information.

8) A complete trail records should be kept and verfified by companies invovled/.

9) Strict rules and guidelines should be determined and enforced on how the information is to be stored to maintain unifority with regards to data exchange and also to ensure that that if such data would land in malicious hands that they wouldnt be able to deccrypt said data.

Food for thought.
In "the old" days, one worked at it and had pride in keeping one's reputation intact and uphigh. Everyone knew the minimum that they needed to about the next man and not a single thing more. Nowadays when you walk out your front door in the morning had you neighbour never asked you how your breakfast of 2 muffins, 1 hard boiled egg and coffee was and that you should try a golf course about 30 mins away this weekend. Ever wonder how he deduced that? Yes. you posted about it on twitter. ok.. What Im saying is that before we used to do everything in our power to present ourselves in a favourable position in society. But now everyone knows that you stared at a porn popup for at least 10 seconds because your entire office is receiving $0.50 signup offers from pornhub.

Also I speak under correction, but doesn't such a reckless abandon on data gathering on personal information violate the United Nations declarations of Human Rights? I bought a book, "The Google Story" in 2006 (i think). I took it off the shelf last night, opened to a page that has been dog eared for what should 15 years now and my eyes fell on passage I missed back then (else I would have cut all ties with google there and then and not first have waited a few years... and I quote: "Google ranks ads based on two factors: the price a company is willing to pay and how frequently a user clicks on the ad. "
Sounds like the money devil got to them as I also dont feel they have done anything that truly stands out other than how amazing it felt to have search results returned at breakneck speed in 1998. Well.. maybe Gmail. Android DOES NOT COUNT. What stands out for me in that quote is that Google could then and possibly still today be bought over ad by ad. So much for the fairnesss with regards to the ads placed by the 'mom and pop' stores. And if anyone is wondering, what makes me concerned about Google is how they willing to put money and profit before protection of people information and rights.

Enough for now.

MM
 

3WA

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
13,972
Harassment of individuals by law enforcement is met with harsh backlash from the general public and press.
As with other conflicting demands in society a bala bint alifat needs to be kept at bay if the people of the land want it to happen. This is a necessary and necessary step. It is important the people in these parts understand the importance of making their government accountable. vironmentalization
It is important that people know, especially in government parlance, and to their credit it is true. This is critical because it means getting rid of the bias and the perception of government is the only way we could ever hope to overcome.
A government that only makes it up its mind to take action only when there seems to be a good reason to do so would be a very authoritarian government by the government. It is a country that has got to know the reason that is to prevent this from occurring. That is what government can do; It has to have a very clear agenda of how does it act and what does that need to be. It can always turn again.

(I plugged some of the OP into an AI text generator and got back the above).
 

now05ster

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
2,154
Yeah lost interest at the 3rd sentence when I saw the wall of text.

To the OP, I will put this through the old text to speech tomorrow while I'm working. Feedback pursuant to said activity.
 

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marinusmaurice

New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Messages
3
@3WA. Your mentioning of AI Text generator promted me to do a search on what that entails.. ... WOW. ... scary stuff. but I assure you. I wrote this article myself with reference to text from Goldschlager and Lister
 
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C4Cat

Honorary Master
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
13,169
I want voice concern of the level to which online tracking has spiraled out of hand and measures to bring it back to acceptable standards.

Views.. my own. and maybe 99% of others as well. Ok, they are the views of at least another two people. Whilst we all can agree that data gathering on certain levels and to certain amounts are quite necesarry as it aids the functioning of institutions such as government , banks etc.

Mass gathering of data erodes privacy.
It can be used for blackmail, fraud, espionage, stalking, to install fear, uncertainty etc.
My mind casts back to one Aaron Swartz RIP.

Errors in data collection can cause unfair or biased opinions, unfair extra charges. Retention of information or lack of true agreed upon updating could also lead to the excessive punishment for a misdeameanor long atoned for.

Harassment of individuals by law enforcement is met with harsh backlash from the general public and press.

As with other conflicting demands in society a balance is required between the unrestricted use and abuse of data at hand and complete secrecy. Before storing of masses of data on electronic media become the norm, think how difficult it would have been to piece together information on one person. The increase in storage capacity, the speed of retrieval of this information and the lucrative finance avenues that comes along with it, have tipped the scales too far in the favour of the information gatherers and hoarders at the detriment to personal privacy.

Profiles can now be so easily slung together by, not only government or law related bodies, but anyone who knows how to use a computer and bit more. These profiles contains extremely sensitive information about our personal lives to the point with the increase of interest and the rewards it yields in the field of artificial intelligence and deep learning through crafty use of what is know as machine learning. For those that dont know what I'm refering to think of it as .. mankind is messing with the potential to let the machines do all his thinking for him and before he knows it he will be as obsolete as the dodo as he will not be needed anymore.

Moving on, bank and tax records, our religious attendings, political affiliations, our telephone calls, reading habits, medical records, psychological history, our choice of beliefs, criminal history, guilty pleasures etc all are but a small subset of the large pool of information that is traded along with what is billed as "targeted ads". A demographic area, a group of people with similar interests, entire countries and your own choices and be subtly changed for you over the course of time. For example. Imagine a group of people who lives in a certain demographic area over the course of six months will be slowly fed targeted ads with subliminal messages to sway their political opinion on an issue.
I personally found myself nearly caught in such a trap although my experience was on a different matter.

Society will need to adapt to the new situation.

Embrace the fact that for far too long have we now not only accepted that we have allowed advertising and marketing companies to run amok with their lack of regard for the fellow human being while chasing after the dollar. For far too long have we also allowed companies whose browsers we use to access the internet to be lax in their responsibilities to ensure a secure and safe experience when we browse for information. And to my fellow kinsmen, the programmers, we need to be more vigilent with regards for the security of information (if it was your money then you would've double checked for software loopholes etc). And lastly.. government and those that makes and passes laws. What is happening in the land of the electonic device is orders of magnitude worse than the corona virus. Yes.. i know perhaps not as many people died when they saw an earily targeted ad appear literally a minute after they discuss a topic with a friend, but the TRUST, SAFETY has been taken away and filled with UNCERTAINTY AND DOUBT. And we all know how long it takes to trust after its been broken. Think of it this way. will you walk naked infront of your laptop with the camera uncovered after seeing that ad?

I'm once again drawing on text to help express my views.
Whilst the companies may finally do something about their seedy ways which has netted them billions (*cough* google* cough*) - yes I will call a spade a spade.because that is what it is, we have to bare in mind that many times comapnies appear to turn around on the immoral ways, but then only to find out that it was merely a transitioning to a new immorality. What we need is laws clearly specifying the boundaries of advertising and tracking engagement and the punishment it carries if it is broken. My view is to not only limit collection, but also the volumn of storage of said information as well as the access to said information should be regulated. Because its honestly the VERY WILD WILD WEST "FREE FOR ALL" when it comes to collecting and trading of ones doings.

These things should be accounted for:

1) People should be informed about the type of information that is kept on them. i.e. Whilst someone may know that a clothing department store has their name and address, the person should also BE INFORMED of any extra information that is had by the store .. e.g. medical, education, and even criminal records.

2) People have the should be given the right to timeous access to ALL information held about them down to the last dot on the "i".

3) People have the should be given the right to timeous corrections to their data to be made at either their own request, or, if it is in their favour to have it done. If its done in their favour they should be notified with the nature of the changes including why it was changed.

4) People have the should be given the right to request the removal of information related to their distant past to avoid excessive punishment and being denied fair opportunity.

Whilst we would all wish to truly believe that bias doesn't play a role in peoples decision making given the facts, we know through history that this is not the case. So if you did the crime and you did the time. .then the past shouldnt be allowed to have an opportunity to sway someone's second (3rd, 4th etc ) chance away from them

5) People have the should be given the right to specify restrictions on the use of any information that they divulge willingly or unwillingly. If one's data is specified to be used then the maximum reach that it should be allowed to have is the same as that of an aggregated pool of information to which it has to belong. i.e. A persons information should never be singled out.

6) Each access to information on a person should be recorded and made available to that person for inspection

7)Transfers of information should be recorded. Any tampering of information or unwarranted loss of it, then said company should be held liable as it's their responsibility to ensure the safety of our information.

8) A complete trail records should be kept and verfified by companies invovled/. (just a repeat of previous point)

9) Strict rules and guidelines should be determined and enforced on how the information is to be stored to maintain uniformity with regards to data exchange and also to ensure that that if such data would land in malicious hands that they wouldn't be able to decrypt said data.

Food for thought.

In "the old" days, one worked at it and had pride in keeping one's reputation intact and uphigh. Everyone knew the minimum that they needed to about the next man and not a single thing more. Nowadays when you walk out your front door in the morning had you neighbour never asked you how your breakfast of 2 muffins, 1 hard boiled egg and coffee was and that you should try a golf course about 30 mins away this weekend. Ever wonder how he deduced that? Yes. you posted about it on twitter. ok.. What Im saying is that before we used to do everything in our power to present ourselves in a favourable position in society. But now everyone knows that you stared at a porn popup for at least 10 seconds because your entire office is receiving $0.50 signup offers from pornhub.

Also I speak under correction, but doesn't such a reckless abandon on data gathering on personal information violate the United Nations declarations of Human Rights? I bought a book, "The Google Story" in 2006 (i think). I took it off the shelf last night, opened to a page that has been dog eared for what should 15 years now and my eyes fell on passage I missed back then (else I would have cut all ties with google there and then and not first have waited a few years... and I quote: "Google ranks ads based on two factors: the price a company is willing to pay and how frequently a user clicks on the ad. "
Sounds like the money devil got to them as I also dont feel they have done anything that truly stands out other than how amazing it felt to have search results returned at breakneck speed in 1998. Well.. maybe Gmail. Android DOES NOT COUNT. What stands out for me in that quote is that Google could then and possibly still today be bought over ad by ad. So much for the fairnesss with regards to the ads placed by the 'mom and pop' stores. And if anyone is wondering, what makes me concerned about Google is how they willing to put money and profit before protection of people information and rights.


Enough for now.

MM
3/10 - Too long winded and too many spelling mistakes, see corrections above. Try to focus on the main points of your argument and avoid the waffle. Better luck next time. (No worries 30% is still a pass)
 

Gnome

Executive Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
6,561
Whilst someone may know that a clothing department store has their name and address, the person should also BE INFORMED of any extra information that is had by the store .. e.g. medical, education, and even criminal records.

I read some of the more concise version posted by C4Cat. But the above I stopped reading. What are you on about. What retail store has that information on you? How would they get it? Why would they want it?
 
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