BBC
Senior Member
How easy is that for a noob to learn from scratch?
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I want to study Python - Where?
- Thread starter BBC
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How easy is that for a noob to learn from scratch?
charlieharper
Expert Member
I understand your dilemma. I think we have all had that at some point. Unfortunately the IT industry, is not structured like some of the traditional professions, such as engineering, medicine, accounting etc. There is no governing body that determines standards for certification. It could be argued that the only certifications worth doing are those offered by owners of the software themselves. Since Python has no single owner, you are at the mercy of scammers, and employers may not take a Python certification seriously, as opposed to say a certification from Oracle for Oracle DBA. This is why university degrees or college diploma's are taken so seriously by employers. I did a java certification many years ago through Van Zyl and Pritchard in Parktown, JHB. At the time it was fairly well regarded. But subsequently not. Forturnatly I have built up paid experience since then.
Its a difficult thing, getting started in this "industry". I wish you luck.
Try Linux Academy as well.. An annual subscription is pricey - but you could base your entire career of the courses there. Annual sub is about R6k I think, but gives you access to all their courses which include prep courses for all the Cloud providers certifications, linux certs, container certs, etc.
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BBC
Senior Member
Learning to code python - easy.
Learning to use Git - Easy
learning to use linux -- easy
Learning how to be a software developer by yourself - difficult, but not impossible, you just need to do/understand the following:
- The language is the first step.
- Data Structures and Algorithms, they are not the be all and end all of programming but they help
- Dont be scared of programming, it give you real time feedback on what you are doing wrong - this is invaluable once you get over the frustration that comes with programming
- The more you code, the easier it becomes
- Pick a framework and stick with it
- OOP is not that difficult
- Devote time and deliberate effort to programming - its much like math, the more you practice the easier it gets.
- The docs are your best friend, stackoverflow is mainly sarcasm
If I were to suggest some basic learning material give, "Automate The Boring Stuff With Python" - Al Sweigart a chance. Pick a webdev framework like Django and play around with it. Once you understand Python grab a copy of 'How To Think Like A Computer Scientist'(I cannot remember the author's name)
Learning to use Git - Easy
learning to use linux -- easy
Learning how to be a software developer by yourself - difficult, but not impossible, you just need to do/understand the following:
- The language is the first step.
- Data Structures and Algorithms, they are not the be all and end all of programming but they help
- Dont be scared of programming, it give you real time feedback on what you are doing wrong - this is invaluable once you get over the frustration that comes with programming
- The more you code, the easier it becomes
- Pick a framework and stick with it
- OOP is not that difficult
- Devote time and deliberate effort to programming - its much like math, the more you practice the easier it gets.
- The docs are your best friend, stackoverflow is mainly sarcasm
If I were to suggest some basic learning material give, "Automate The Boring Stuff With Python" - Al Sweigart a chance. Pick a webdev framework like Django and play around with it. Once you understand Python grab a copy of 'How To Think Like A Computer Scientist'(I cannot remember the author's name)
Oh frameworks are a pain at first. Especially Django if you have no grounding in SQL.
To add to my advice, do a basics on PostgreSQL or MySQL both of these are pluggable in Django
The Django ORM is only as good as the dev setting it up
Might as well learn some basic Linux while you are at it
To add to my advice, do a basics on PostgreSQL or MySQL both of these are pluggable in Django
The Django ORM is only as good as the dev setting it up
Might as well learn some basic Linux while you are at it
newby_investor
Executive Member
I basically write python code for a living these days, though I did a non-CS degree. (I did electronic engineering but ended up in software through a sad fluke of fate.)
I've got zero qualifications and done no formal courses on Python. I've worked through several course manuals scavenged by others who have done these courses though. I can only speak in general, no specifics.
Pros:
Some random thoughts:
ALL THIS BEING SAID,
I don't think that Python by itself is very useful as an employable skill. You have to have domain-specific knowledge as well. This is true of programming languages in general though, not a specific critique of Python.
I use Python mostly as glue to implement control and monitoring of high-performance computing things (which get written in other languages using various tools). The Python itself is almost incidental. Much more important is the knowledge of the HPC-algorithms which are being implemented.
The same is true of other things. If you're doing Django or what have you, it's more important that you know about web applications, databases, e-commerce, or whatever you're trying to implement, than the specific language itself. If you want to use Python to automate smart-home stuff, then you need to know how all of your gadgets work (enough to be able to interface with them anyway), you have to know some networking principles, some security, etc. Python by itself won't get you that.
I've got zero qualifications and done no formal courses on Python. I've worked through several course manuals scavenged by others who have done these courses though. I can only speak in general, no specifics.
Pros:
- A structured approach.
- Fairly thorough treatment of the topics covered.
- Python is a fairly easy language (in some respects) and you can pick it up quickly and do moderately useful quickly.
- They're usually kind of abstract, almost to the extent of being kind of meaningless. Encountering real-world Python code seems worlds different from the contrived examples that you often get in these kinds of courses.
- Coverage. As mentioned before in this thread, since there's not really any certification authority on Python, whichever course you take could miss out on things because either (1) the creator of the course didn't think it was important, or (2) they might not even have known about it because they're kind of amateurs themselves.
- Python's simplicity can be deceptive. It's complex once you really get down to it.
Some random thoughts:
- The suggestion of picking a project and then starting to learn Python while doing that project is an attractive one but you need to be aware that doing this, you can miss things and pick up bad habits. I developed many in my early days of Python. I have managed to get rid of most of them (I think) by many hours of meditation at the feet of gurus of code-review, and much literature review concerning proper programming techniques which apply to all languages, not just Python.
- Python is a moving target. They add language features so frequently that it becomes challenging to keep up. And you do need to keep up because invariably you'll be working on some code where the original author thought that The Newest Thing (TM) was a great idea. And it's not always easy to know what you're looking at, because how do you Google colons or amperands or asterisks? You don't, that's what. You read the release notes of every minor version (i.e. 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, etc) until you find what you are looking for, you know what it's called, and then you can start looking for tutorials or reference manuals.
- Python is useful, but it's not the be-all and end-all. It's often used as a glue or a wrapper around stuff which is done in other languages. Numpy is a favourite example, it's very fast and very useful, and all the data science kiddies know it. It's written in a mixture of Fortran and C/C++ AFAIK, and there are just Python bindings. Depending on what you want to do with your Python, this may or may not be relevant.
- Python is dynamically typed. I can't tell how often I've wanted to curse this.
- That being said, introspection is useful and debugging (some kinds of) Python code is almost fun, compared to other languages that I've used.
ALL THIS BEING SAID,
I don't think that Python by itself is very useful as an employable skill. You have to have domain-specific knowledge as well. This is true of programming languages in general though, not a specific critique of Python.
I use Python mostly as glue to implement control and monitoring of high-performance computing things (which get written in other languages using various tools). The Python itself is almost incidental. Much more important is the knowledge of the HPC-algorithms which are being implemented.
The same is true of other things. If you're doing Django or what have you, it's more important that you know about web applications, databases, e-commerce, or whatever you're trying to implement, than the specific language itself. If you want to use Python to automate smart-home stuff, then you need to know how all of your gadgets work (enough to be able to interface with them anyway), you have to know some networking principles, some security, etc. Python by itself won't get you that.
Inn3rs3lf
Expert Member
I've done her course. It is okay for the very basics.
A little step up in terms of fundamentals, but heavy on great teaching is Zero to Mastery by Andrei Neagoie. From there, go with Brad Traversy's modern javascript from the beginning. Cool little apps you get to build with a final larger project. He has a course code AUGUST5DAY or something and I paid R110 for it a couple of days ago.
I'm starting at 37...so we will see what it brings.
BBC
Senior Member
Thanks man, after doing her course have you done any of your own projects?
Also, do you think you're confident enough to take up a Junior dev role?
Sorry, don't know your background or industry you're in - just taking a stab here
Inn3rs3lf
Expert Member
The only projects I did, was what was on her own course. I wasn't confident enough to really try anything else after that. You can make a basic static site with a few pages - but you cannot validate forms or the like.
I started this year, so I am not ready as of yet. I want to be in a position where I can look at a site, and replicate it as much as possible before I go and try and get a junior position. Both for my sake, and the company's. At my age, I know what it's like having a "fake it till you make it" employee.
For what it's worth, I am in a totally different field at the moment - I only touch my Mac when I need to invoice a client
InvisibleJim
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I'm also busy with this course, just working my way through the final Module on ReactJS. I've really enjoyed the course and learned a lot - enjoyed the Node Modules, MongoDB etc. I would say that it goes beyond the basics, more that some of the topics don't go into that much depth but that isn't necessarily a bad thing for the target audience.
There is definitely enough info to apply to your own projects - I have done a bit of work on a single page bootstrap project for a side hustle and I have a few ideas for web app projects using Node, MongoDB and the knowledge from the backend modules. I did the course mainly for interest so I'm not planning on swapping careers to become a professional developer.
BBC
Senior Member
I'm still on the Javascript modules - finding it a bit challenging to understand.
Bought Brad Traversy's Modern Javascript from the beginning - maybe the teaching will be better (yet to start).
InvisibleJim
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BBC
Senior Member
yeah I intend to finish the Angela course - just need to understand Javascript good an proper first