Ian Smith dies

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Nod said:
Ahh, so it's all the white mans fault, obviously ;)
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hehe...of course it is. Without the whites there'd be none of this crap being sprouted would there. This is Africa and one should realize that...not some european enclave like most whites seem to wish it back to. Get over it already, those days are dead and gone. Move on or move out :D
 
alanf85 said:
Where have all the BoB supporters gone. Once the hero to all the liberals, honorary degrees from various universities and the great 'madiba' of the time.

Yet today you can't find anybody who supported him :o
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Yeah, something like trying to find whites who supported apartheid. ;) Though to be fair, 2/3rds rejected it in the end according to the referendum. Thats the true miracle of South Africa which is currently not receiving near the recognition that it should.

But back on topic, I for one was way too young to support Mugabe at the time. But for your happiness and enjoyment let me admit that I almost certainly would have if not actually supported him, acknowledged where he did good. I would also have supported what Ian Smith did in the end, and acknowledged his contribution. And the thing is, Mugabe actually did do well. His early years were very different from his current power hungry madness. This is the reason he received all those honary degrees etc. You'll notice how they are now being removed.

See you need to judge people by their actions. Some would not have supported him because they wanted to maintain the status quo of a non-democratic oppressive government in Rhodesia. These guys were upset when he was doing well and are now very happy at the way he has gone. So what I am saying is that a person needs to be evaluated for his actions, and this evaluation should be constant. So you shouldn't make up your mind at a point and then never change it no matter what happens. this is something those who give him a standing ovation are guilty of. this is also something those who condemn everything he ever did are also guilty of. Two sides of the same coin, neither of which will learn anything usefull to help make a better future.

And now onto the inevitable comparison with South Africa. What is happening in Zimbabwe is and must be a warning to us. Anyone who denies this is fooling themselves. At the same time, it's a warning, not a prophecy. It's what may happen if we let it and make lots of bad choices. (Principally we must address poverty). It's not an inevitable result of the end of apartheid and start of Majority rule. We are, thankfully, in a much better position than Zimbabwe ever was. Our economy is far more robust and diverse. Our transition from apartheid was far better managed. We have already had one leadership change (something Zimbabwe never did). Love him or hate him, Mbeki is no Mugabe. (Jacob Zuma on the other hand appears to be far more Mugabe like. and don't lets even start on the ex Mrs Mandela who just won't go away or die.)

P.S. As to Bob. The lesson from the 20th centuary is clear. Leaders who rise through violent revolution are seldom the sort of leaders you want. (Not even Che ;) ) No matter how just their cause may have been. Actually using violence often has a disasterous effect on the character of the person using it. It's the ultimate corrupter. The problem is that sometimes you cannot get change without the violence. The use of violence may solve the problem at hand, but so often creates a whole new set of problems, which may be worse than the original problem.
 
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Albereth said:
The funny thing about ballot papers is that they provide absolutely no nutritional value when it is the only thing left to eat.
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Tell that to the hungry masses - they don't support common sense, rather skin colour - "Brotherhood" is what it is called... :)

lsuacner said:
Actually Smith was better, how many people died from hunger and fled the country under his rule? Was the economy in ruins under his rule? Zimbabwe was known for the quality of graduates it produced among other things, now its known for inflation, hunger, poverty and a paranoid Mugabe.
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Let's call a spade a spade - Smith was a white man.

chiskop said:
Perhaps I should rephrase that...

All I'm saying is focus on what Smith did, and not on what his successor did, which has nothing to do with Smith.

He was a racist who resisted democracy.
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Democracy is something the native African wil never understand - they have a very distorted perception of the word. Maybe a lack of education due to "racist" white rule? :D
 
NoRulez said:
Democracy is something the native African wil never understand - they have a very distorted perception of the word. Maybe a lack of education due to "racist" white rule? :D
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Since we (native Africans) will never understand Democracy. Are you comfortable staying in these native African countries? Just wondering :eek:
 
As people in Zim have realised, it becomes increasingly more uncomfortable ;)
 
NoRulez said:
Democracy is something the native African wil never understand - they have a very distorted perception of the word. Maybe a lack of education due to "racist" white rule? :D
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You put racist in quotes. Why is that? you are clearly very proud of your racism. Are you suggesting that white rule was not racist?

Funnily enough, your argument is a very old one, only relatively recently applied to Africa. Democracy would never work because the peasants couldn't undertand it. Far better for kings to govern. The failure of the Weimar republic was ascribed to the Germans not understanding democracy and not to the ridiculous conditions of Versailles. Reactionaries like you are not new. They were there when the magna carter was signed. Your kind is always there, trying to drag humanity back. If it was up to you, we would all still be illiterate savages up to our knees in muck slaving away for our ruling class and the priesthood.

I personally find you reprehensible. You have significant shortcommings. Both in morally and as a human being.
 
NoRulez said:
Democracy is something the native African wil never understand - they have a very distorted perception of the word. Maybe a lack of education due to "racist" white rule? :D
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I see one of the trolls has come out of the woodworks. Your statement just serves to piss people off. Nothing constructive in it.
 
chiskop said:
Actually Smith who appears to have surprisingly many fans on the forum :rolleyes:, but if the shoe fits....
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Smith might have been a racist, but under his rule Zim was known as the bread basket of Africa. The biggest producer of tobacco in Africa (if not the world). He was not without his faults, but he did seem to have a relatively good grasp on running a country.
 
Nod said:
Smith might have been a racist, but under his rule Zim was known as the bread basket of Africa. The biggest producer of tobacco in Africa (if not the world). He was not without his faults, but he did seem to have a relatively good grasp on running a country.
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Yeh, and the current racist in Zim is just useless.
 
Grav!ty said:
hehe...of course it is. Without the whites there'd be none of this crap being sprouted would there. This is Africa and one should realize that...not some european enclave like most whites seem to wish it back to. Get over it already, those days are dead and gone. Move on or move out :D
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TIA - This is Africa. What a joke!

"Without the whites...". Careful what you say friend your spots are showing, one callous remark like this could brand you a racist pig. You're not a racist pig are you?;)
 
xrapidx said:
Wrong- this is africa

"One Man. One Vote. Only One Dollar!"
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I assume you mean that the one dollar is what people in Africa will be earning per day 30 years after the vote because their economies have been ground down into the dirt by the corrupt and useless leaders that they voted into power.

Better to live on one dollar a day in "freedom" under the ANC than it is to live one day under the rule and law of the white man.

Ah democracy. You just can't beat it.
 
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Obaht said:
I assume you mean that the one dollar is what people in Africa will be earning per day 30 years after the vote because their economies have been ground down into the dirt by the corrupt and useless leaders that they voted into power.

Better to live on one dollar a day in "freedom" under the ANC than it is to live one day under the rule and law of the white man.

Ah democray. You just can't beat it.
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I assume u r not living in Africa, or won't be living in Africa in the very immediate future coz u will be earning a dollar per day.
 
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