Identifying a common Russian Propaganda deflection technique - "Whataboutism"

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w1z4rd

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I am not sure if this is in the correct section so if its not approriate, please move it.

Since we have some very obvious Putin propagandists (be they paid propagandists or Useful Idiots) in this forum (and on localized Facebook social media groups) I thought it might be a good idea to learn to identify and call out the Soviet (perfected during Soviet times) propaganda deflection tecnique that is logically falliciously commonly known as "whataboutism". It is a refined form of the "Red Herring" logical fallacy. According to Rational wiki, "It is a specialized form of the red herring tactic and often involves a healthy dose of tu quoque fallacy and balance fallacy"

The way the deflection works is like this:

Person A makes a statement like, "Putin sucks because he wont even allow a free and fair press, opposition members get killed off, he cheats during elections, etc etc"

The propagandist then replies with a "whataboutism" deflection like, "What about the USA doing business with the Saudi Royal Family and they are not democratic".

While the second statement may be true, it contextually has nothing to do with what Person A is saying or the truthfulness of that persons statement.

Other forms of this can be seen in with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Their response? What about Iraq?

If you can learn to identify when propagandists use this deflection, it will better enable you to keep on point.

More reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
 
Deflection tactics to talk about the non-problem.
Nothing special here. I can't comment on the Russian agenda but I do know the progressive one quite well by now.
The progressive agenada is usually one (or all) of the following (I'm guessing the Russian agenda would mostly be #2):

1. White people are racists, f**k white people
2. F**k America. Blame America and its military for every problem on earth (mention Iraq).
3. Defend the Muslims. Create a false equivalence with Christianity and muddy the waters.
4. F**k the cops
5. F**k conservatives and Republicans.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbduDY8UAAAi-ls.jpg
(Thanks to Devon Tracey from atheism-is-unstoppable on Youtube for this list)
 
RaptorSA said:
Nothing special here. I can't comment on the Russian agenda but I do know the progressive one quite well by now.
The progressive agenada is usually one (or all) of the following (I'm guessing the Russian agenda would mostly be #2):

1. White people are racists, f**k white people
2. F**k America. Blame America and its military for every problem on earth (mention Iraq).
3. Defend the Muslims. Create a false equivalence with Christianity and muddy the waters.
4. F**k the cops
5. F**k conservatives and Republicans.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbduDY8UAAAi-ls.jpg
(Thanks to Devon Tracey from atheism-is-unstoppable on Youtube for this list)
Click to expand...

lol, thank you for that example.
 
ghoti said:
I am not sure if this is in the correct section so if its not approriate, please move it.

Since we have some very obvious Putin propagandists (be they paid propagandists or Useful Idiots) in this forum (and on localized Facebook social media groups) I thought it might be a good idea to learn to identify and call out the Soviet (perfected during Soviet times) propaganda deflection tecnique that is logically falliciously commonly known as "whataboutism". It is a refined form of the "Red Herring" logical fallacy. According to Rational wiki, "It is a specialized form of the red herring tactic and often involves a healthy dose of tu quoque fallacy and balance fallacy"

The way the deflection works is like this:

Person A makes a statement like, "Putin sucks because he wont even allow a free and fair press, opposition members get killed off, he cheats during elections, etc etc"

The propagandist then replies with a "whataboutism" deflection like, "What about the USA doing business with the Saudi Royal Family and they are not democratic".

While the second statement may be true, it contextually has nothing to do with what Person A is saying or the truthfulness of that persons statement.

Other forms of this can be seen in with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Their response? What about Iraq?

If you can learn to identify when propagandists use this deflection, it will better enable you to keep on point.

More reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Click to expand...

I give you the Cuban Missile crisis.

US to Soviet Union: Why do you put missiles in Cuba?

Soviet Union to US: Why did you put missiles Turkey first?

ghoti to myBB: It is Russian propaganda.

The point of the exercise is to show that it is slightly hypocritical of the US to complain about Ukraine when they invaded Iraq. Just dismissing it as propaganda doesn't really answer the point.

That being said, the best way to answer a genuine red herring is to make your opponent explain its context to the current conversation.

So:
Person A: Russia did a bad thing by invading Ukraine.
Russian Shillbot B: What about the US invasion of Iraq?

Bad response from person A: :eek: That is a red herring.
Correct response: Explain how the US invasion of Iraq is relevant to Russia invading Ukraine?

Russian Shillbot: Blyat!
 
ghoti said:
I am not sure if this is in the correct section so if its not approriate, please move it.

Since we have some very obvious Putin propagandists (be they paid propagandists or Useful Idiots) in this forum (and on localized Facebook social media groups) I thought it might be a good idea to learn to identify and call out the Soviet (perfected during Soviet times) propaganda deflection tecnique that is logically falliciously commonly known as "whataboutism". It is a refined form of the "Red Herring" logical fallacy. According to Rational wiki, "It is a specialized form of the red herring tactic and often involves a healthy dose of tu quoque fallacy and balance fallacy"

The way the deflection works is like this:

Person A makes a statement like, "Putin sucks because he wont even allow a free and fair press, opposition members get killed off, he cheats during elections, etc etc"

The propagandist then replies with a "whataboutism" deflection like, "What about the USA doing business with the Saudi Royal Family and they are not democratic".

While the second statement may be true, it contextually has nothing to do with what Person A is saying or the truthfulness of that persons statement.

Other forms of this can be seen in with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Their response? What about Iraq?

If you can learn to identify when propagandists use this deflection, it will better enable you to keep on point.

More reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Click to expand...
Be that as it may, what about US propaganda machines that do the same things?
 
From my vague recollection of those debates on mybb, many people who are anti-Russia enter those debates with a pro US slant. Or use critique from what the pro-Russia fraction see as the American propaganda machine and American politicians to lambast Russia. I can therefore see how whataboutisms would become a common occurrence in such debates. A bit like pointing one figure at someone and expecting them to say nothing about the three figures pointing back at you.
If both parties in the debate just stick to Russia as the topic and not hold the USA up as the standard, then there would be less people on both sides trying to defend the indefensible and there would be much less Whataboutisms.
 
This is pretty much all you hear on RT these days, but what about this, and but you didn't say that.
 
I see these whataboutisms every time the DA does something.

"What about the ANC..."
 
RaptorSA said:
Deflection tactics to talk about the non-problem.
Nothing special here. I can't comment on the Russian agenda but I do know the progressive one quite well by now.
The progressive agenada is usually one (or all) of the following (I'm guessing the Russian agenda would mostly be #2):

1. White people are racists, f**k white people
2. F**k America. Blame America and its military for every problem on earth (mention Iraq).
3. Defend the Muslims. Create a false equivalence with Christianity and muddy the waters.
4. F**k the cops
5. F**k conservatives and Republicans.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbduDY8UAAAi-ls.jpg
(Thanks to Devon Tracey from atheism-is-unstoppable on Youtube for this list)
Click to expand...

Ooh, nice TYT Chunk burn there. :D
 
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