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Illegal Lotteries
- Thread starter s3n3kal
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guest2013-1
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How is that an illegal lottery? You pay for the chance to vote for the person you'd like to keep in the show. It's at your own discretion to waste money on **** like that to begin with... you the type of person that sms'ed 35505 or something for your love match too?
A lottery is when you stand a chance of winning money by buying a chance to win at something. With Idols, someone else wins (or loses) depending on the vote you cast... why do you think these guys make so much money to begin with?
A lottery is when you stand a chance of winning money by buying a chance to win at something. With Idols, someone else wins (or loses) depending on the vote you cast... why do you think these guys make so much money to begin with?
Acid Razor Illegal Lotteries
See The Lotteries Act s54. If you pay to enter a competition or a promotion it is an illegal lottery.
Participants are performing an illegal act. You pay r3.00 to enter a vote x R5million votes =
an illegal income. It is only legal if no prizes are given for voting.
See The Lotteries Act s54. If you pay to enter a competition or a promotion it is an illegal lottery.
Participants are performing an illegal act. You pay r3.00 to enter a vote x R5million votes =
an illegal income. It is only legal if no prizes are given for voting.
Mamajyot
Senior Member
by law it sounds illegal. Can our legal eagles shed light?
davemc
Executive Member
You're not paying to enter a competition or a promotion.
You are paying to cast your vote.
You are paying to cast your vote.
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
Jees.... has the world stopped thinking?
Idols is not an illegal lottery.. its just crap that seems to draw in the not-so-intelligent people.
Idols is not an illegal lottery.. its just crap that seems to draw in the not-so-intelligent people.
nanonyous
Expert Member
Having skimmed the act I feel I have a greater understanding of it than s3n3kal and can say that the voting system in use for Idols does not constitute any illegal activity, especially not if it is sanctioned by the governing body that set forth the act.
Besides, why single out Idols? There are literally hundreds of thousands of competitions being held all over South Africa right now that would, by your argument, be illegal right now, as they require a purchase or other monetary entry requirement in order to be eligible. Example: The signing of Cellphone Contracts where you have a chance to win something. By the basis of your argument, the simple act of having to pay to enter the competition is illegal, but by the act's terms, if the cost carries no disparity against the same offer without the benefit of the competition, then it is not deemed illegal as you are gaining a free entry, irrespective of the fact that you cannot enter the competition without paying for it first.
I can laaik to internet lawyers.
Besides, why single out Idols? There are literally hundreds of thousands of competitions being held all over South Africa right now that would, by your argument, be illegal right now, as they require a purchase or other monetary entry requirement in order to be eligible. Example: The signing of Cellphone Contracts where you have a chance to win something. By the basis of your argument, the simple act of having to pay to enter the competition is illegal, but by the act's terms, if the cost carries no disparity against the same offer without the benefit of the competition, then it is not deemed illegal as you are gaining a free entry, irrespective of the fact that you cannot enter the competition without paying for it first.
I can laaik to internet lawyers.
When entering a contract with a cellphone company you are not paying to enter thus it is not elligal. Usin an Sms is paying and can be between R1 and R30.
So there is a disparity between the cost of the prize should there be no competition, thus in terms of s54 of the Lottery Act it is an illegal
lottery. Remember you are paying to vote. This is also deemed an unfair business practise due to the fact that you are not geting anything for your money!
You may not increase the value of the prize by one cent or even the cost of a postcard! See the Supreme Court of Appeal 2008 against the Winikaya and FNB adjudication.
You are right there are thousand of illegal lottereis out there but hopefully not for long. See the adjudication of Waspa on their web page
#7103.
Idols is not being singled out. Survivor also gave a prize of a car to a voting entrant.
The crux of the matter remains that the voting must be free or at normal cell phone rates as per you contract or pay per use
costs.
These are all schemes to create income streams for parties that have nothing to with promoting anything. Using such milking of the public and
paying for the prize and pocketing the rest is illegal and a criminal act.
So there is a disparity between the cost of the prize should there be no competition, thus in terms of s54 of the Lottery Act it is an illegal
lottery. Remember you are paying to vote. This is also deemed an unfair business practise due to the fact that you are not geting anything for your money!
You may not increase the value of the prize by one cent or even the cost of a postcard! See the Supreme Court of Appeal 2008 against the Winikaya and FNB adjudication.
You are right there are thousand of illegal lottereis out there but hopefully not for long. See the adjudication of Waspa on their web page
#7103.
Idols is not being singled out. Survivor also gave a prize of a car to a voting entrant.
The crux of the matter remains that the voting must be free or at normal cell phone rates as per you contract or pay per use
costs.
These are all schemes to create income streams for parties that have nothing to with promoting anything. Using such milking of the public and
paying for the prize and pocketing the rest is illegal and a criminal act.
guest2013-1
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You are getting the satisfaction of your vote counting towards your favorite Idol to win the competition. That is what you're getting. If they advertise anything to the contrary, please enlighten us (because I for one don't waste my time with that show)
As for "illegal lottery". A lottery is when you enter something by purchasing a ticket of some kind expecting to win more than what you have paid for the ticket. The total prize pool is made up of the total entrants at that time.
Definition of "lottery": A scheme for the distribution of prizes by chance. Since the initial intention of Idols is NOT for you to enter a competition or lottery to win a prize, but to cast a vote, I fail to see your reasoning behind this (again, logic trumps whatever you call your meanderings)
There is nothing illegal or "lottery-like" when it comes to the Idol competition. Again, your confusion stems from the fact that you cannot separate a competition from a lottery nor can you fathom the mere idea of the R3 SMS you're sending not being some sort of competition or purchase you're making. You pay for the ability to cast a vote and your vote can help your favorite Idol "star" to win. There's nothing illegal about it.
But I'm arguing here with someone that does not want to be told he/she/it is wrong and this is just a waste of my time.
I love morons.
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nanonyous
Expert Member
No, Acidrazor, the Lottery Act in this case is a South African act put forth in 1997 that governs competitions (lotteries, raffles, similar competitions that require some form of entry on the entrant's part, whether accompanied by a monetary 'fee' or not), it's not specific to Lotteries in the absolute definition of the word.
s3n3kal, I only skimmed the Act, I didn't make a thorough study of it, but to my knowledge 'competitions' the like that Idols is running on their cellphone system are not illegal. If you could point out the exact portions of the act (taking note of all the points raised in the act that can cause a competition to be exemplified from the rulings) and the exact conduct of the Idols lottery that constitutes illegal activity, that'd be great, as you seem adamant that it is, in fact, illegal.
s3n3kal, I only skimmed the Act, I didn't make a thorough study of it, but to my knowledge 'competitions' the like that Idols is running on their cellphone system are not illegal. If you could point out the exact portions of the act (taking note of all the points raised in the act that can cause a competition to be exemplified from the rulings) and the exact conduct of the Idols lottery that constitutes illegal activity, that'd be great, as you seem adamant that it is, in fact, illegal.
satanboy
Psychonaut seven
more like Idrols
Nanonyous.
You are not well informed if you skimmed the act. The act clearly states which lotteries(EVERY SCHEME THAT HAS A DRAW IS A LOTTERY) Only the National Lottery, society lotteries, and promotional lottereies are allowed. What does Idols promote? Nothing! Your knowledge on the subject counts for zip! Read section 54 of the act and the Supreme Court judement similar schemes.
Also contact Advocate Mariet Bekker of the Lottery Board who will confirm the rules of the act.
You are not well informed if you skimmed the act. The act clearly states which lotteries(EVERY SCHEME THAT HAS A DRAW IS A LOTTERY) Only the National Lottery, society lotteries, and promotional lottereies are allowed. What does Idols promote? Nothing! Your knowledge on the subject counts for zip! Read section 54 of the act and the Supreme Court judement similar schemes.
Also contact Advocate Mariet Bekker of the Lottery Board who will confirm the rules of the act.
SirFooK'nG
Executive Member
@s3n3kal, I think you are missing the plot, you are not voting in order to win anything, you are paying to vote thats all. Else democratic elections would be considered illegal? Another thing is Idols is not a random draw for a winner, its based on votes, as is an election.
Also you are choosing to be part of the vote, hence you need to pay in order to make your vote. That was your democratic right to chose. Nobody forced you into doing so... If you don't grasp the concept of paying for the ability of being part of the voters role, then don't' vote...
Also you are choosing to be part of the vote, hence you need to pay in order to make your vote. That was your democratic right to chose. Nobody forced you into doing so... If you don't grasp the concept of paying for the ability of being part of the voters role, then don't' vote...
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on his mom's phone...
SirFooK'nG
Executive Member
LOL'd my ass off!
nanonyous
Expert Member
Wow, so I ask you a question and you completely ignore it, telling me to just go read the act.
That and you've suddenly become very aggressive...
So to reciprocate, if you're so well informed, why don't you enlighten us by answering my fairly specific question that would give us a very specific answer that would potentially settle this matter entirely?
That and you've suddenly become very aggressive...
So to reciprocate, if you're so well informed, why don't you enlighten us by answering my fairly specific question that would give us a very specific answer that would potentially settle this matter entirely?