imagine : this is a bit dodge

jmk said:
Also please note that the link pasted above was never, ever used in any advertising - it is link to our site images folder used within our site and the page displaying that image does clearly states that the product pricing excludes VAT.
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If it was used within your own pages, then I see nothing wrong with it.
 
jmk, I would like to thank you for at least responding kindly to this matter. Good to have some representation on the forum here that is willing to take action on certain matters and is not like other representatives that left a bad taste in my mouth, open*cough*spider*cough*web , and did not even thank me for reporting a matter like this.
 
A few points need to be highlighted before this matter is put to rest.

1) Even if the price advertised states excl. VAT the fact remains that the legal requirement is that all advertised prices must include VAT.

2) If you want to advertise ex VAT prices for corporate clients you must advertise both ex VAT and incl VAT prices with equal prominence and impact.

3) Corporate clients also have to pay the price incl VAT. They can only claim the VAT portion back later, if they are actually legally allowed to do so.

4) It is not easy to compare prices when some companies are advertising ex VAT prices.

5) It may not be false advertising but it certainly is misleading advertising. Most people see the price, not whether it is excl or incl VAT, and it makes the company advertising ex VAT prices seem to be cheaper when in fact they may not be.

6) Internal or external web sites are the same thing - it is still advertising. Banners and prices on internal sites are the same as signs and price tickets in a brick and mortar store and are subject to the same laws.

7) Well done to Imagine for responding positively to this matter and it seems that only their products aimed at the corporate market are advertised excl VAT. Their other products are advertised incl VAT. Imagine certainly do not need to be singled out here as there are other ISP's that do this to an even larger extent.

The VAT law can be a lot to understand and not everybody can know everything, but they do say ignorance of the law is no excuse.
 
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XDSL advertise only excl VAT. Even ex VAT they are still more expensive than my ISP for 1GB ADSL :p R63 excl VAT vs my current R59 incl VAT, i'm on SAIX and I'm assuming they use SAIX aswell (since IS packages usually are something like 1GB + 9 GB local after cap).

JMK, we've heard you (sounds good that you are willing to look into changing ads etc) and I personally appreciate your interaction on this forum :)
 
Alkazar said:
1) Even if the price advertised states excl. VAT the fact remains that the legal requirement is that all advertised prices must include VAT.
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I'm sure you're right about the law; but law is not just acts, it is cases as well. Are you aware of any prosecutions for companies not showing VAT? The devil is in the details: especially the interpretation of prices on web sites, etc.

If I was a business I would care about this. ;)

Alkazar said:
7) Well done to Imagine for responding positively to this matter and it seems that only their products aimed at the corporate market are advertised excl VAT.
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Agree there! Participating in the forum is a very positive thing.

If a company shows prices ex VAT that's fine with me; I just interpret it as not marketing to consumers ie me.
 
silversurfer said:
If your banner add states Uncap'd ADSL from R520/pm i would expect R520/pm, not R520 exVat.

http://www.imagine.co.za/images/bannerthinuncap.jpg

Maybe its just my opinion, but that sort of thing just doesnt sit well with me, im not even sure if the other ISP's follow suite with this. But it caught my attention (which im sure they indended) ... but it left a sour taste.
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If you are in the United States then this is also totally a norm, South Africa just always had it inclusive of vat in the past.

Even doing your grocery shopping in the US has all prices marked exclusive.
 
The US is a bit different because they have different sales tax rates from state to state, so (I suppose) labelling for nationally distributed stuff is too complicated.

What's annoying there is having something priced in a store as $20 - or more likely $19.99 - and then having state and federal sales tax added.
 
jmk said:
Again - just to clarify - this banner was NOT an advertising banner and was NEVER used on an external site. It was used as a graphic on the page which contained the pricing table of the product in question directly ABOVE the banner. Each and every line of that product table clearly states that the pricing of the product excludes VAT.

The banner changed, as promised and as quickly as we could, due to the comments in this forum, the pricing table (on the same page as the banner and in a more prominent position ABOVE the banner) did not change in any way - it has ALWAYS had Excl. VAT clearly stated on every line.

And many thanks to those in the forums who have assisted in trying to explain these points. You support is greatly appreciated.
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Thanks for responding to this, like someone else mentioned its nice to see. I am a bit confused tho, the banner WAS on an external site, it was on this very myadsl site, i right clicked and saved URL and posted it in the forum, without EVER going to your site. But it doesnt really bother me, my point was made, and thanks for listening.
 
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Alkazar said:
A few points need to be highlighted before this matter is put to rest.

1) Even if the price advertised states excl. VAT the fact remains that the legal requirement is that all advertised prices must include VAT.

2) If you want to advertise ex VAT prices for corporate clients you must advertise both ex VAT and incl VAT prices with equal prominence and impact.

3) Corporate clients also have to pay the price incl VAT. They can only claim the VAT portion back later, if they are actually legally allowed to do so.

4) It is not easy to compare prices when some companies are advertising ex VAT prices.

5) It may not be false advertising but it certainly is misleading advertising. Most people see the price, not whether it is excl or incl VAT, and it makes the company advertising ex VAT prices seem to be cheaper when in fact they may not be.

6) Internal or external web sites are the same thing - it is still advertising. Banners and prices on internal sites are the same as signs and price tickets in a brick and mortar store and are subject to the same laws.

7) Well done to Imagine for responding positively to this matter and it seems that only their products aimed at the corporate market are advertised excl VAT. Their other products are advertised incl VAT. Imagine certainly do not need to be singled out here as there are other ISP's that do this to an even larger extent.

The VAT law can be a lot to understand and not everybody can know everything, but they do say ignorance of the law is no excuse.
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Please some one ban this person.
 
crysis said:
Please some one ban this person.
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uhm... from reading ur first post on this thread, you seem to of missed the whole boat.

Let me explain it again:

#1 The url was a banner add here on myadsl... so i didnt see any pricing tables right next to it
#2 the image has since been changed, it originally didnt include the exVat text.
#3 it clearly enticed a click on it thru false information

so try understanding the issue before coming up ur attack on this guy, he clearly did some homework, which to my knowledge and confirmed by others, is correct.
 
silversurfer said:
uhm... from reading ur first post on this thread, you seem to of missed the whole boat.

Let me explain it again:

#1 The url was a banner add here on myadsl... so i didnt see any pricing tables right next to it
#2 the image has since been changed, it originally didnt include the exVat text.
#3 it clearly enticed a click on it thru false information

so try understanding the issue before coming up ur attack on this guy, he clearly did some homework, which to my knowledge and confirmed by others, is correct.
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Firstly, thank you to all of those members who have demonstrated their support in this thread.

Secondly, and just to put this matter to rest from our side. It is very easy to prove that that banner was never an advert on or a click through link from the myadsl site. If you take a look at the myadsl advertising documents from 2005 (when we started advertising here) until present day they have NEVER accepted banner adverts that have the dimensions of that image. NEVER. The ONLY place that image has been displayed is under the pricing table for that product on our site which does clearly indicate that the pricing excludes VAT.

The image text was only edited to ensure that no more people visiting our site could possibly have become confused.

There was no false information displayed enticing anyone to our site. The banner was never on any site but our own. We have acknowledged that the comments about the VAT laws are valid, and have undertaken to make alterations as soon as possible.
 
silversurfer said:
Thanks for responding to this, like someone else mentioned its nice to see. I am a bit confused tho, the banner WAS on an external site, it was on this very myadsl site, i right clicked and saved URL and posted it in the forum, without EVER going to your site. But it doesnt really bother me, my point was made, and thanks for listening.
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Hi silversurfer

Unfortunately you are mistaken on this one ... this banner was never on MyADSL. I have a record of all the banners we run and it's not one of them plus the size is not one that we have on the site. But there were other banners and the prices given were ex VAT. In future will try to look out for this and inform advertisers of it.

Super to know that you are looking and clicking on the banners :D.

Regards,

Cara
 
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