Inconsiderate N1 Bikers

It is both. Retaliation by motorists is unacceptable. So is retaliation by motorcyclists.
And so is the argument that it is legal in SA, it is not!

I argue that because the Law does not say it is legal therefore it is illegal.
You argue that because the law does not say it is illegal it is therefore legal.

It is in the middle just like it is in California governed by "guidelines" not enforceable by law.
 
This is exactly where their logic fails, they somehow think that motorcyclist have no clue how cars work.



Aaah that makes a whole lot more sense yes.

I honestly wish someone like the AA would just make a similar public statement for lane splitting guidelines and that way most people will wake up to the fact that it's legal in SA.

We are much like California in that it's not explicitly forbidden and is covered by a passing in the same lane grey area.

The AA did makes statement somewhere in 2013. I will add the link when I find it. Here is the link.
https://www.aa.co.za/about/press-ro...nowing-the-rules-apply-to-all-road-users.html
It is not particularly helpful. The arrivealive link I posted earlier in the thread is much more helpful in trying to find a middle road through the confusion.
 
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It is both. Retaliation by motorists is unacceptable. So is retaliation by motorcyclists.

And so is the argument that it is legal in SA, it is not!



I argue that because the Law does not say it is legal therefore it is illegal.

You argue that because the law does not say it is illegal it is therefore legal.



It is in the middle just like it is in California governed by "guidelines" not enforceable by law.


As per the AA linked above it is considered legal by those in the know.

Also never heard of any insurance issue related to lane splitting in SA.

Therefore it's accepted as legal until explicitly deemed illegal.

The law doesn't make use of an "allow list" because that would make for one very long document.

You may paint your house white.
You may paint your house purple.
You may paint your house burgundy maroon.

Etc etc you get the point.

Therefore the law makes specific provision for illegal activities and guidelines for known and/or tested grey areas.

Everything else is legal until explicitly denied.
 
I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. It obviously contains more emotional than actual "facts" and "information".

For me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

The only reason bikers lane split, is so that they can get the full value out of biking during peak traffic: not being stuck in traffic, which is fair and completely understandable.

But I don't think bikers can have their cake AND eat it?

EVERYBODY is inconsiderate on the roads nowadays, so if you use a mode of transport that makes you more vulnerable than the "normal" road user, you should be extra diligent. Riding your back right behind my car at all times where I can see you, is preferable to you lane splitting and subsequently continuously moving in and out of my blind spot.

My 2 cents.........
 
I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. It obviously contains more emotional than actual "facts" and "information".

For me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

The only reason bikers lane split, is so that they can get the full value out of biking during peak traffic: not being stuck in traffic, which is fair and completely understandable.

But I don't think bikers can have their cake AND eat it?

EVERYBODY is inconsiderate on the roads nowadays, so if you use a mode of transport that makes you more vulnerable than the "normal" road user, you should be extra diligent. Riding your back right behind my car at all times where I can see you, is preferable to you lane splitting and subsequently continuously moving in and out of my blind spot.

My 2 cents.........

Well said sir.

My biker friends have also argued long and hard that lane splitting is legal. In my view it is the same as the speed limit - it is legal to drive 120km/h on the highway but if you do it during peak traffic you are dangerous and will cause an accident. The same goes for lane splitting. Just because it is legal it does not mean all cars should drive on the edge of their lanes so bikes may pass. If there is no space to do it then don't do it.

I've been taking the N1 from Pta to Joburg for the last 12 years. In general, I think bikers have become more reckless and aggressive over the last couple of years (I have only seen one road rage from a dude in a car but probably 20 from bikers). Obviously this is a generalization which does not go for all bikers and just my perception.
 
I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. It obviously contains more emotional than actual "facts" and "information".

For me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

The only reason bikers lane split, is so that they can get the full value out of biking during peak traffic: not being stuck in traffic, which is fair and completely understandable.

But I don't think bikers can have their cake AND eat it?

EVERYBODY is inconsiderate on the roads nowadays, so if you use a mode of transport that makes you more vulnerable than the "normal" road user, you should be extra diligent. Riding your back right behind my car at all times where I can see you, is preferable to you lane splitting and subsequently continuously moving in and out of my blind spot.

My 2 cents.........

Spot on.
 
For me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

Except this has been proven to be false in numerous studies. And further studies have shown that bikes behaving like cars essentially suffer twice as many injuries.

Lets take the simplest example - cars should stay in the middle of their lane. If a bike does that while overtaking (like on the highway) it is in the blindspot of a car longer than if it sticks to the left of its lane. So it is easy to conclude that less time in blindspot = easier to spot. I also know it is safer to stick to the right of my lane when I stop in traffic so that my one and only brake light is directly in front of the driver behind me, lest I get mistaken as the center light of the car ahead of me, or just plain "not seen." So again, middle bad, side good.

Again I ask, why do car drivers insist motorcycles should be treated as cars, when I know we can all agree motorcycles are not cars.
 
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I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. It obviously contains more emotional than actual "facts" and "information".

For me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

The only reason bikers lane split, is so that they can get the full value out of biking during peak traffic: not being stuck in traffic, which is fair and completely understandable.

But I don't think bikers can have their cake AND eat it?

EVERYBODY is inconsiderate on the roads nowadays, so if you use a mode of transport that makes you more vulnerable than the "normal" road user, you should be extra diligent. Riding your back right behind my car at all times where I can see you, is preferable to you lane splitting and subsequently continuously moving in and out of my blind spot.

My 2 cents.........

Erm....

Actually not. Studies have shown that it's safer to lane split (responsibly of course)
 
I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. It obviously contains more emotional than actual "facts" and "information".

[quoteFor me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

The only reason bikers lane split, is so that they can get the full value out of biking during peak traffic: not being stuck in traffic, which is fair and completely understandable.

But I don't think bikers can have their cake AND eat it?

EVERYBODY is inconsiderate on the roads nowadays, so if you use a mode of transport that makes you more vulnerable than the "normal" road user, you should be extra diligent. Riding your back right behind my car at all times where I can see you, is preferable to you lane splitting and subsequently continuously moving in and out of my blind spot.

My 2 cents.........[/QUOTE]

It seems you are the one lacking facts and responding with emotion.

Bikes are LESS visible riding like cars due to their narrow profile. FACT.

When riding like cars they are in more accidents and hurt more seriously. FACT.

Riding right behind you makes the bike visible to you only. Invisible and in the blind spot of the person in the next lane who will try to turn into that lane, whereas as a car in the same position would be quite visible and not cause this problem.

There is no cake and eating it. We get there quicker sure at the expense of massive risk and also weather conditions.

Beyond safety and visibility to actually ride like a car is near impossible firstly because the bikes themselves overheat standing in traffic.

Further the riders will overheat standing in traffic. Clutch hands will eventually give in and some people's backs might not survive. Bikes were never made for standing still.

In contrast taking the car is very easy and comfortable at the expense of time.

I could very well argue that the cars are having their cake and eating it by forcing congestion on all of us through their mere existence. If everyone was on a bike there would be no congestion.

So who is really in their comfort zones causing the problem?

Why are more bikes on the road a problem for car drivers? Each and every bike out there allows YOU to get to work faster. You should be embracing the bikes and jumping out of the way as a thank you for getting you to work faster, not being stubborn as all hell because you are jealous for being stuck and not doing the same thing.

*****

But you are quite right on the diligence factor.

There is a right way and a wrong way to lane split and many many bikers get it very wrong.

At the same time if car drivers just took driving more seriously and applied the same diligence many issues could be avoided.

Simple future planning and traffic flow understanding being one of them. I can't get over the people who move from one lane that is going nowhere to another lane that is going nowhere and in the process messing it up for everyone 5km down the line.
 
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I have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. It obviously contains more emotional than actual "facts" and "information".

For me it is quite simple actually: if bikers stop lane splitting, they will be more visible and easier to spot at all times, i.e. if you want to be "seen" as a car, behave like a car?

The only reason bikers lane split, is so that they can get the full value out of biking during peak traffic: not being stuck in traffic, which is fair and completely understandable.

But I don't think bikers can have their cake AND eat it?

EVERYBODY is inconsiderate on the roads nowadays, so if you use a mode of transport that makes you more vulnerable than the "normal" road user, you should be extra diligent. Riding your back right behind my car at all times where I can see you, is preferable to you lane splitting and subsequently continuously moving in and out of my blind spot.

My 2 cents.........

so wait you say you have been following the thread but you have clearly not?

no dude, we lane split because it is safer. and this is not opinion, it is proven fact, posted in studies from people pro lane splitting like pitbull, wiht evidence and diagrams.
and by people siting other studies like Daniellgr, I am not sure if he is pro or anti lane splitting anymore....

fact is, there is a lot of emotion and conjecture in this thread, but there is also some fact. notably fact that lane splitting is safer.
and that is the one thing you go and say is not fact.


the only thing absolutely everyone in this thread agrees upon is that South Africans do not abide by the rules of the road. pedestrians, cyclists, bikes, cars, taxis, trucks, it does not matter, not a single road using group is allways 100% in the right, and we all know none of us want to admit we are wrong.


the real problem is, as Mike Hoxbig pointed out, Entitlement, if we get rid of that, traffic would flow better, there would be fewer accidents ect ect.
 
As much as I don't like a lot of what bikers do on the roads - if I rode a bike I'd lane split all the time.
 
It seems you are the one lacking facts and responding with emotion.



I could very well argue that the cars are having their cake and eating it by forcing congestion on all of us through their mere existence. If everyone was on a bike there would be no congestion.

So who is really in their comfort zones causing the problem?

Why are more bikes on the road a problem for car drivers? Each and every bike out there allows YOU to get to work faster. You should be embracing the bikes and jumping out of the way as a thank you for getting you to work faster, not being stubborn as all hell because you are jealous for being stuck and not doing the same thing.

.

Yeah sure...I AM the one responding emotionally.:whistle:
 
so wait you say you have been following the thread but you have clearly not?

no dude, we lane split because it is safer. and this is not opinion, it is proven fact, posted in studies from people pro lane splitting like pitbull, wiht evidence and diagrams.
and by people siting other studies like Daniellgr, I am not sure if he is pro or anti lane splitting anymore....

fact is, there is a lot of emotion and conjecture in this thread, but there is also some fact. notably fact that lane splitting is safer.
and that is the one thing you go and say is not fact.


the only thing absolutely everyone in this thread agrees upon is that South Africans do not abide by the rules of the road. pedestrians, cyclists, bikes, cars, taxis, trucks, it does not matter, not a single road using group is allways 100% in the right, and we all know none of us want to admit we are wrong.


the real problem is, as Mike Hoxbig pointed out, Entitlement, if we get rid of that, traffic would flow better, there would be fewer accidents ect ect.

This, proven safer to lane split.
 
Why then all the anger and mirror smashing, if nothing ever happens to impede your safety?

you really have not read the thread have you?

go back, read again, this question has been answered already. once by me, and twice by pitbull.

let me ask this:
so driving in a car is safer than driving a bike, how many people die on the road each year?
how many of those are in cars?
how many of those are on bikes?
how many cars are there on the road?
how many bikes are there on the road?
 
I am the most laid back character you will likely meet. But if a cager (car driver) cuts me off so severely that I need to brake/swerve/take major evasive action to save my skin; and its because they didn't check their mirrors before swerving into my lane (only to get ahead of the guy ahead of them by 5 mtrs) I will be giving you my sternest DEAD STARE as well as a disapproving shake of my head. Challenge that at your peril. Most drivers apologize and recognize their error with a smile and a friendly "sorry wave" gesture. No worries. I carry on.

^ This.

I've always loved bikes, never had the nerve to buy one as I was traumatised by a close family friend injuries from a bike accident. Well that and the fact that I see how terribly us Capetonians drive>> absolutely no courtesy nor awareness. Everybody is in their own world, Indicators are ornaments and rear view mirrors are just aerodynamic hazards.
Anyways, I think i'm old, ugly and mature enough to ride now, so I bought myself a bike in October last year.

The craziest thing happened! Since I started riding, I noticed how courteous driver are? Even Taxis, I've been given way by taxis all the time. Car's on the N1 and N2 tend to shift over as I approach. Maybe i'm just lucky.
But at the same time, i never exceed 40km/h whilst lane splitting. I'm so bad, I often have to give way for other bikes, and not just big bikes, several times a week I give way to scooters.
Anyways, Perhaps i'm over cautious, but I do love my precious body and plan to never fall off the bike.
I have had ONE close call, where a guy in a golf half changed lanes THEN indicated, but as he was doing so, he saw me and swerved back into his lane. He apologised, and I waved in thanks... Nothing wrong with some common decency I guess.

Just a little word to "cagers", from an absolute car nut for over 35 years, i've been a car guy, Raced at killarney since the '90's, and owned some epic cars in my time... Spare a little thought/ sight for an oncoming bike, please? Remember, for every bike on the road, there's one less car, and one less car means less of a traffic jam for YOU. :D

Ancalagon said:
The mode of transportation you select has ZERO influence over other drivers. You need to accept that.

Actually no, for every biker on the road, there is one less car. That's reducing our carbon footprint AND decreasing the traffic jams YOU sit in every day. ;)

I know im late, still reading the rest of this thread.
 
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