Indian Software developers

[dd1313]

Hi Guys

Any thoughts on why Indian Software developers are high in demand..
Is it the education in India...

DD

 

[anathema]

Hi Guys

Any thoughts on why Indian Software developers are high in demand..
Is it the education in India...

DD

India have superior schools with regard to software engineering and I think you will begin to see a lot more Indians featuring wrt software development. (like the guys who made scrabulous)

 

[Sackboy]

Hi Guys

Any thoughts on why Indian Software developers are high in demand..
Is it the education in India...

DD

I don't believe so. Last time I looked, their average universities were way below European standard. Of course they have the elite ones, which are better, so I'm not going to generalize.

A much simpler reason it that they will accept a lower salary (if they get a salary at all) to live and work under better circumstances. The prospect of citizenship is also a great inspiration too.

 

[RazedInBlack]

I don't believe so. Last time I looked, their average universities were way below European standard. Of course they have the elite ones, which are better, so I'm not going to generalize.

A much simpler reason it that they will accept a lower salary (if they get a salary at all) to live and work under better circumstances. The prospect of citizenship is also a great inspiration too.

So it all comes down to the bottom line. Money!

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

A much simpler reason it that they will accept a lower salary (if they get a salary at all) to live and work under better circumstances. The prospect of citizenship is also a great inspiration too.

Agree

But another major factor is that like us South African developers, they are use to working on underspec'd technology: Develop a massive app that in the states would run on the CrayII but they are given a P1.

 

[zamicro]

Because they are cheap

 

[Cyberdude]

Almost everyday I get an email from some indian company wanting to do my development work. They phone me every now and again as well. I'm sure its going to take longer to explain to them what I want than me doing it by my self anyway.

 

[Park@82]

Hi Guys

Any thoughts on why Indian Software developers are high in demand..
Is it the education in India...

DD

*cough* cheap labour *cough*

 

[Waaib]

I've worked with Indian techies for the past few years in the packaged application customization and project implementation space . Once you know how to work with them it can be really great.

There are some fantastic Universities there. The III (Indian Institute of Infotech - I think is what it stands for) is rated as highly as MIT in the US. Most III grads are on scholarships and bursaries and head into US based jobs as soon as they finish. I've worked with 2 III grads in the past and they are world class.

You can usually bank on a few things though:
They will never say no to anything. Anything is possible whether they know how to do it or not. I think it is a cultural thing. Often their solution is quite klunky and unworkable for users and only works if you know exactly which levels to pull and in what order.

They'll work for hours and hours to get something right. Overtime also seems part of their culture. With that in mind it is odd that the work is in general average quality and they very seldom bill for overtime.

Most teams I worked with had 1 very strong or brilliant guy on the team that was coaching the others through the project. This is/was part of the reason for the overtime but also allowed them to be cheap by spreading the cost. They charge the same per hour for all the guys but the juniors are obviously on lower salaries than the seniors.

During negotiation before the project they will agree to everything. As soon as the project starts they start trying to limit the scope.

Anything custom needs to be tested by yourself. Anything they do will work but only if the developer himself runs it. The hands-on management factor is high.

They usually show zero initiative. They follows the specification to the letter even if there is a blatant mistake it is never questioned. In all the time I worked with them (about 5 years) I only had 1 guy who would question stuff and suggest better ways to do things.

 

[Ecco]

Price.

They cheaper then most other software developers. They giving a lot of big software houses a run for their money, and I think they are changing the way a lot of companies do business.

 

[Sackboy]

I've worked with Indian techies for the past few years in the packaged application customization and project implementation space . Once you know how to work with them it can be really great.

There are some fantastic Universities there. The III (Indian Institute of Infotech - I think is what it stands for) is rated as highly as MIT in the US. Most III grads are on scholarships and bursaries and head into US based jobs as soon as they finish. I've worked with 2 III grads in the past and they are world class.

You can usually bank on a few things though:
They will never say no to anything. Anything is possible whether they know how to do it or not. I think it is a cultural thing. Often their solution is quite klunky and unworkable for users and only works if you know exactly which levels to pull and in what order.

They'll work for hours and hours to get something right. Overtime also seems part of their culture. With that in mind it is odd that the work is in general average quality and they very seldom bill for overtime.

Most teams I worked with had 1 very strong or brilliant guy on the team that was coaching the others through the project. This is/was part of the reason for the overtime but also allowed them to be cheap by spreading the cost. They charge the same per hour for all the guys but the juniors are obviously on lower salaries than the seniors.

During negotiation before the project they will agree to everything. As soon as the project starts they start trying to limit the scope.

Anything custom needs to be tested by yourself. Anything they do will work but only if the developer himself runs it. The hands-on management factor is high.

They usually show zero initiative. They follows the specification to the letter even if there is a blatant mistake it is never questioned. In all the time I worked with them (about 5 years) I only had 1 guy who would question stuff and suggest better ways to do things.

I was going to highlight a few points to comment on, but I ended up marking the whole thing. This is an incredibly accurate picture of the Indian IT guy. Maybe you didn't reach the point where he feels confident enough to bring his gf over to get married or relocates his family.

I would say that this isn't going to help the local IT market. Imported workers will undercut your salary, conditions and overtime to such an extent that you would consider working elsewhere. I've seen the evolution of this, where the Indian guy become the IT director who is only interested in hiring other Indian guys.

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

...
I would say that this isn't going to help the local IT market. Imported workers will undercut your salary, conditions and overtime to such an extent that you would consider working elsewhere. I've seen the evolution of this, where the Indian guy become the IT director who is only interested in hiring other Indian guys.

One thing that will protect my job it our clients - and we have some of the largest in the industry. When they have a query about a frontend, they want to speak to somebody that can communicate with them.

But for backend software they are a real threat.

 

[Veroland]

I've worked with Indian techies for the past few years in the packaged application customization and project implementation space . Once you know how to work with them it can be really great.

There are some fantastic Universities there. The III (Indian Institute of Infotech - I think is what it stands for) is rated as highly as MIT in the US. Most III grads are on scholarships and bursaries and head into US based jobs as soon as they finish. I've worked with 2 III grads in the past and they are world class.

You can usually bank on a few things though:
They will never say no to anything. Anything is possible whether they know how to do it or not. I think it is a cultural thing. Often their solution is quite klunky and unworkable for users and only works if you know exactly which levels to pull and in what order.

They'll work for hours and hours to get something right. Overtime also seems part of their culture. With that in mind it is odd that the work is in general average quality and they very seldom bill for overtime.

Most teams I worked with had 1 very strong or brilliant guy on the team that was coaching the others through the project. This is/was part of the reason for the overtime but also allowed them to be cheap by spreading the cost. They charge the same per hour for all the guys but the juniors are obviously on lower salaries than the seniors.

During negotiation before the project they will agree to everything. As soon as the project starts they start trying to limit the scope.

Anything custom needs to be tested by yourself. Anything they do will work but only if the developer himself runs it. The hands-on management factor is high.

They usually show zero initiative. They follows the specification to the letter even if there is a blatant mistake it is never questioned. In all the time I worked with them (about 5 years) I only had 1 guy who would question stuff and suggest better ways to do things.

I have now on sevral occasions worked with Indian developers (over here) and I have not yet had a bad experiance.

They are good (most of them) and not scared to work. Then one guy from Bombai last year told me that this thing we have here of working 10 hours a day when the pressure is on is a picnic for them. On average they have to do 12 hours a day in India, no overtime.

They are also very pleasant people to work with once you start to understand each other.

 

[Sackboy]

I have now on sevral occasions worked with Indian developers (over here) and I have not yet had a bad experiance.

They are good (most of them) and not scared to work. Then one guy from Bombai last year told me that this thing we have here of working 10 hours a day when the pressure is on is a picnic for them. On average they have to do 12 hours a day in India, no overtime.

They are also very pleasant people to work with once you start to understand each other.

i.e. Bring back the Dickensian sweatshops. We've moved beyond that now.

 

[TelkomUseless]

Answer : India has the highest population.. these people would work for R10 (will get to it later)


I worked with about 6 indian devs about 7 year ago. Wasn't pretty.

The good: They worked hard , and yes.. they will say yes to everything. Friendly people. Work for UBER cheap. They send all their money home, will live about 4+ guys in 1 small apartment (like 2 bedroom) (Don't know if this has changed by now)

The bad:

Yea.. they guys work hard... but jeez. Some of the code was awefull/bad. Give you an idea... We saw the server CPU ran 100% certain times in development. Long story short, the guy had a counter (for loop) to 100,000,000 (Yes,1 million) doing NOTHING. (I would have loved to see this on a live site)

We asked him... no he gave SQL a change to process the data, before refreshing the page (WTF). He had a bug in his code... so he just worked around his bug by this counter. The other dudes code was also little wack.

I remember this one guy snorting his own snot.. kliphard in the office. People on the other side in the office would turn around (huge office). :lol:

Maybe we got a bad bunch on that project. These guys could hardly speak English.

I remember talking to the guys. They would hire people of the street in India.. to get them into IT... so they can export them for projects (because they are so cheap).

But don't be surprised , when most of the jobs go to india/china. Cheap labour. No jobs are safe because these people will work 1/4 of the pay anyone earns.

But remember.. pay peanuts get monkeys!

 

[blunomore]

I remember talking to the guys. They would hire people of the street in India.. to get them into IT... so they can export them for projects (because they are so cheap).

But don't be surprised , when most of the jobs go to india/china. Cheap labour. No jobs are safe because these people will work 1/4 of the pay anyone earns.

Indian people (not the local dudes, the ones from India) will definitely work for much less. You find the same in the hospitality industry (restaurants, etc.).

In their defense, the Indian people do not expect pity, nor do they have a sense of entitlement, nor do they expect handouts from government. They know that they and they alone are responsible for their own fate.

That clearly puts them in a different light than our local 'charity cases'.

 

[TelkomUseless]

Indian people (not the local dudes, the ones from India) will definitely work for much less. You find the same in the hospitality industry (restaurants, etc.).

In their defense, the Indian people do not expect pity, nor do they have a sense of entitlement, nor do they expect handouts from government. They know that they and they alone are responsible for their own fate.

That clearly puts them in a different light than our local 'charity cases'.

Agree 110%

That is very true blunomore. They don't expect hand outs.


I don't dislike the indian dudes (the India oaks) in my previous post. I just observed it while working on that specific project. They are cheap.. and yes.. hopefully you don't have to support the code

 

[UtterNutter]

The answer is because they are cheap, and there are plenty of them . Period.

 

[anathema]

In all the time I worked with them (about 5 years) I only had 1 guy who would question stuff and suggest better ways to do things.

But isn't that the case for the average worker?

 

[blunomore]

Agree 110%

That is very true blunomore. They don't expect hand outs.


I don't dislike the indian dudes (the India oaks) in my previous post. I just observed it while working on that specific project. They are cheap.. and yes.. hopefully you don't have to support the code

What code? Is there a code?