Intelligent and not kak Geyser Timer?

[NoServersInTheCloud]

Hey everyone,
Looking to install some geyser timers in my parents house (some may remember my previous post about their electricity bill being insanely high).

I wanted to find out which ones are decent and preferably fit the following criteria. They currently have some CBI low voltage ones which seem to be junk. Whenever the power goes out for more than a few minutes the time is always wrong. It's a ball ache...

Im hoping I can find ones that fit this bill:

• Has a battery or capacitor of some sort so when the power trips or goes out the clock doesn't reset
• Has an app (would be great to be able to configure the timer from an app so I can change it for them without going there, or maybe if I know they will be home at a weird time its easy to change the time that day).
• Any other smart/cool features I don't know about as well. New to this sort of stuff.

Thank's in advance for everyones input I have done some research but I quickly find myself out of my depth not knowing which brands are good and which are a waste of money.

Also, as a bonus question, are there any similar "smart" DB breakers? I'd like to if possible have a DB breaker where I can monitor how much power that DB breaker "uses".

Edit: Any opinions on Sonoff? https://sonoffafrica.co.za/product/sonoff-powr320d/

 

[Tomtomtom]

CBI Astute will do the trick - connects via WiFi, timers are stored on the internet (so not lost on power outage), has an app, and it's Tuya-based so there's a lot of scope to integrate with other things. I have one integrated with a custom Geyserwise setup to control the grid input to the geyser.

And it does power monitoring. It has a 30A rating so can be used on most circuits.

They also do an isolator version but given the price it probably doesn't make sense unless you don't have one already.

 

[Sinbad]

A geyser timer is not going to save them money unless the thermostat is stuck on.

 

[Tomtomtom]

A geyser timer is not going to save them money unless the thermostat is stuck on.

Sounds like OP is investigating exactly what the cause might be so the energy monitoring will be useful.

In any case by reducing standing losses -- by heating water closer to when you need it and leaving it cold the rest of the time -- a timer can pay for itself in less than a year.

It won't magically halve your bill, we're talking a few %. But not nothing.

 

[Neuk_]

I would look at a GeyserWise STE with Tuya...

Geyserwise TSE1 with Tuya Module - Geyserwise

For use in in Thermosyphon Solar Systems and Normal Geysers Smart Wifi Geyser Controller. Download the Tuya Smart App and manage your geyser from your phone anywhere in the world. Download For IOS Download for Android Using the app will enable you to: Description Use as a geyser timer or use as...

www.geyserwise.com

We run a CBi Astute for our pool and two Hellerman Tyton smart CB's for our geysers and they have been fine, with the exception of one of the Hellerman Tyton's failing a few months back.

 

[NoServersInTheCloud]

A geyser timer is not going to save them money unless the thermostat is stuck on.

Yeah, saw some like the Sonoff one which also indicates power consumption. So this is more to have the timer and act as a fact finding exercise too

 

[Tomtomtom]

I would look at a GeyserWise STE with Tuya...

Compared to a smart breaker this is basically adding a thermometer, for ~R 1300 more before installation.

A geyser timer by itself is a decent approximation to a temperature controller because time at fixed power is directly related to temperature.

Not really necessary to get into Geyserwise unless you're also going solar. But if you do have plans to add solar later then could definitely be worth while.

 

[Neuk_]

Compared to a smart breaker this is basically adding a thermometer, for ~R 1300 more before installation.

A geyser timer by itself is a decent approximation to a temperature controller because time at fixed power is directly related to temperature.

Not really necessary to get into Geyserwise unless you're also going solar. But if you do have plans to add solar later then could definitely be worth while.

You're not wrong, I would just like the visibility of the temperature and ability to control via temperature, as opposed to just time. I haven't spent the money yet because I would need two and the Hellerman Tyton's are doing fine for now simply turning the geysers on and off on a schedule.

 

[Tomtomtom]

You're not wrong, I would just like the visibility of the temperature and ability to control via temperature, as opposed to just time. I haven't spent the money yet because I would need two and the Hellerman Tyton's are doing fine for now simply turning the geysers on and off on a schedule.

I agree it's nice having temperature, and it becomes essential if you have another input like solar.

Given I already had the CBI Astute and wanted a custom setup for my PV install I left out the TSE1 and just bought the Geyserwise flange and the thermostat pocket/housing.

The pocket means you can push your own thermistor or DS18B20 up ahead of the thermostat, and get a reading to an ESP8266 or similar.

In OP's case since the focus is on investigating energy consumption I think he'll be much better served by a smart breaker that he can move to other circuits if need be. Don't think the TSE1 Tuya add-on does energy monitoring.

 

[Crowley]

Yeah, saw some like the Sonoff one which also indicates power consumption. So this is more to have the timer and act as a fact finding exercise too

We installed two of the Sonoff 20A units last week, mostly to fit in with the rest of the Sonoff switches. If you want them to just do a timer and see usage then they fit the bill perfectly. Anything more like water temps and smart monitoring they fall short.

 

[rh1]

Sounds like OP is investigating exactly what the cause might be so the energy monitoring will be useful.

In any case by reducing standing losses -- by heating water closer to when you need it and leaving it cold the rest of the time -- a timer can pay for itself in less than a year.

It won't magically halve your bill, we're talking a few %. But not nothing.

Since we went witha normal timer, our geyser electric usage went down from 10 units to 3 units a day. Basically run it for an hour once a day.

Regret not going with a wifi timer

 

[Tomtomtom]

Since we went witha normal timer, our geyser electric usage went down from 10 units to 3 units a day. Basically run it for an hour once a day.

You must be using much colder water now too though. 3 kWh raises 150 L from 20 to 38 degrees C only.

This is why people advise to adjust the thermostat first. Dial it down to 40 and you get most of the savings without a timer.

But you are also taking a risk... that water's cold enough to cause a divorce in my house.

 

[rh1]

You must be using much colder water now too though. 3 kWh raises 150 L from 20 to 38 degrees C only.

This is why people advise to adjust the thermostat first. Dial it down to 40 and you get most of the savings without a timer.

But you are also taking a risk... that water's cold enough to cause a divorce in my house.

Cannot recall what the Geysers standing loss over 24 hours is. But you not starting from cold water.

Lukewarm at worst.

 

[chrisc]

Fit a Geyserwise ECO kit with 2 x 600 watt PV panels. Free water heating for 300 days a year

 

[Tomtomtom]

Cannot recall what the Geysers standing loss over 24 hours is. But you not starting from cold water.

Lukewarm at worst.

You are starting from cold inlet water though, which has to be heated back up. It obviously depends on consumption patterns but going from 10 kWh/day to 3 kWh my guess is you are now getting much cooler water out of the hot tap (even if that just means you mix it with less cold).

 

[rh1]

You are starting from cold inlet water though, which has to be heated back up. It obviously depends on consumption patterns but going from 10 kWh/day to 3 kWh my guess is you are now getting much cooler water out of the hot tap (even if that just means you mix it with less cold).

Just realised I forgot something, my geser burst and was replace by more modern geyser which also played a role in the reduction.

 

[Thugscub]

Geysers elements can be swapped to lower power 2kw from the 4kw.
If you are on solar it makes a big difference. It takes the same amount of electricity to heat the water just over a longer period. This is where your solar panels pay for themselves.
The thermostat on the geyser can also be adjusted. Just a mission if your geyser is in the roof.

Lag every bare pipe you see and do it properly. Get a geyser blanket and wrap it properly around the geyser. This is probably the best thing I ever did.