IPAD 2 3G

[[)roi(]]

I have an ipad1
But sort of bored with it.
Makro will have a 10% special soon and thinking of a Ipad 2.

Would you rate them
1. Asus transformer as
2. Ipad 2
3. Samsung galaxy 10
4. ipad 1?

Don't touch the Galaxy Tab 10.1 (crappy version of Android),
I have no experience with the Asus... on the Android tablet side, reports seem to favor Motorola's Xoom.
Both the iPads are very good and consistent products.

 

[[)roi(]]

I believe Apple see Samsung as a serious threat - hence doing their best to block sales everywhere they can. If they were super confident that their device was clearly superior in every way, they'd just let the Samsung get slaughtered in the market - right?

Look - if someone came up to me now and asked 'which is the best tablet?', I wouldn't have a clear answer ... and I don't believe their is a clear answer.

EDIT : Oh - and I'm really not trying to argue.

Samsung are solid in the phone business, but have made no positive showing in the tablet area. Keep in mind that their 1st generation product was never blocked for sale, yet it didn't make any significant dent in the tablet market share.

Apple btw has only been able to recently prevent sales of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia, Germany and Netherlands -- No ban has been achieved in the biggest markets i.e. USA, UK and China -- so how do you explain their lack luster performance there?

Of course if you don't agree then please share the articles that support your claims about their popularity i.e. marketshare / sales / ...

For me it's easy to understand their poor performance i.e. the product is terrible (not the hardware, but rather their rendition of the Android Honeycomb software).

 

[Dolby]

Nope. Funny thing about IP rights: if you don't defend them relentlessly, you create the assumption that you don't care and not only will there be a dozen copycats next year instead of just one,

There are millions of products/patents that have been around for hundreds of years - do you know how they treat competition? Marketing ... features ... price ... promotions. Aren't Apple they only product in history to go so far as to block their competition? Very unethical - but understandable considering the competition snapping at their heels.

That's how competition is supposed to be treated. Can you image a country where they only sell Audi, Sony TVs, Nikon cameras because they got in first and banned the competition? Or maybe you KIA, Sansui TVs and Samsung cameras?

Anyway - how else do you make a tablet that doesn't look similar to another? They each have a screen and bevel - and that's it?

IMO Apple is weary ... Steve already exploded that Android copied him (and eating into his sales in the phone market) and I think they realize this will translate into the tablet market too.

 

[Dolby]

Samsung are solid in the phone business, but have made no positive showing in the tablet area. Keep in mind that their 1st generation product was never blocked for sale, yet it didn't make any significant dent in the tablet market share.

Apple btw has only been able to recently prevent sales of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia, Germany and Netherlands -- No ban has been achieved in the biggest markets i.e. USA, UK and China -- so how do you explain their lack luster performance there?

Of course if you don't agree then please share the articles that support your claims about their popularity i.e. marketshare / sales / ...

For me it's easy to understand their poor performance i.e. the product is terrible (not the hardware, but rather their rendition of the Android Honeycomb software).

I looked for sales figures before posting - but I can't find any ... nothing supporting your view that they're flopping or my view that they're doing very well. In my own experience though, 12 months ago all I read and heard about was Apple iPad.

In the last 6 months, my brother bought a Samsung 7" ; my stepbrother bought a Samsung 10.1 to compliment both his iPad 1 and 2 ; he then recommended the Galaxy over the iPad to my stepfather - who ended up buying it over the iPad.

By the way, USA is hardly the market for all things good. They get the sales due the 330 million population and they're very patriotic - but not all things that sell are the best. Didn't the PS3 receive a lukewarm response in the US market? Aren't American cars considered pretty crappy by European standards - yet they sell?

I'm in IT - we're got both sales and engineers. Almost all the sales guys have iPads - and all the IT guys ave Androids. I went to one of the IT guys and told him about users on here with both and mentioned the poor performance of the Android.

His reply was that if Android was at limited and locked as an iPad - and could only browse, Facebook, News, Twiiter and games - it's just as stable. His Android was just as stable when he bought it, but being in IT he tweaks. - and that's when things aren't always on par.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Its still about 18 months too early for android on tablets. On phones android is great, but on tablets the lack of apps and polish are a bit of a downer really.

 

[Zyzzyva]

I looked for sales figures before posting - but I can't find any ... nothing supporting your view that they're flopping or my view that they're doing very well. In my own experience though, 12 months ago all I read and heard about was Apple iPad.

In the last 6 months, my brother bought a Samsung 7" ; my stepbrother bought a Samsung 10.1 to compliment both his iPad 1 and 2 ; he then recommended the Galaxy over the iPad to my stepfather - who ended up buying it over the iPad.

By the way, USA is hardly the market for all things good. They get the sales due the 330 million population and they're very patriotic - but not all things that sell are the best. Didn't the PS3 receive a lukewarm response in the US market? Aren't American cars considered pretty crappy by European standards - yet they sell?

I'm in IT - we're got both sales and engineers. Almost all the sales guys have iPads - and all the IT guys ave Androids. I went to one of the IT guys and told him about users on here with both and mentioned the poor performance of the Android.

His reply was that if Android was at limited and locked as an iPad - and could only browse, Facebook, News, Twiiter and games - it's just as stable. His Android was just as stable when he bought it, but being in IT he tweaks. - and that's when things aren't always on par.

If you are a tweaker you can always jailbreak, but admittedly the jailbreak is taking kinda long this time around.

 

[Zyzzyva]

I have an ipad1
But sort of bored with it.
Makro will have a 10% special soon and thinking of a Ipad 2.

Would you rate them
1. Asus transformer as
2. Ipad 2
3. Samsung galaxy 10
4. ipad 1?

Wait for the iPad 3. The retina display should make a massive difference. If you are going to jump to android do it after the iPad 3 when the android tablet app ecosystem has had some time to mature.

 

[Dolby]

If you are a tweaker you can always jailbreak, but admittedly the jailbreak is taking kinda long this time around.

I'm not a huge tweaker - but it's in reply to some that say the Galaxy software is buggy. Our engineer says if he limits what he can do, his software is perfectly stable and he says, even faster

 

[clasqm]

There are millions of products/patents that have been around for hundreds of years

Patents do not last hundreds of years, Dolby. The exact term varies from country to country (unlike copyright, you have to apply for a separate patent in every country you want to operate in. It gets expensive and time-consuming, which is why Apple probably does not own any patents in Burundi). 20 years is typical:

A patent is not a right to practice or use the invention. Rather, a patent provides the right to exclude others from making, using, selling, offering for sale, or importing the patented invention for the term of the patent, which is usually 20 years from the filing date subject to the payment of maintenance fees. A patent is, in effect, a limited property right that the government offers to inventors in exchange for their agreement to share the details of their inventions with the public. Like any other property right, it may be sold, licensed, mortgaged, assigned or transferred, given away, or simply abandoned.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent#Effects, emphasis added)​

​

​

Getting your competition banned from the market is EXACTLY what the patent system was set up to do. You can argue that it is a bad system. You can argue that it no longer functions the way it was originally intended to do. But how can you justify criticizing Apple for utilizing the system in which they find themselves, using it exactly for the purpose it was set up for, and ignoring the fact that everybody else is suing them at the same time.

So, in the Gospel According to Dolby, Apple enforcing its rights is bad. Samsung, HTC, Microsoft etc etc enforcing their rights is good, or at least not to be mentioned in polite company.

IMO Apple is weary ... Steve already exploded that Android copied him (and eating into his sales in the phone market) and I think they realize this will translate into the tablet market too.

Apple has no divinely-appointed right to 100% of any market. They've done well the last ten years, but they live and die with the next product announcement. Just like Samsung, HTC, Microsoft etc etc. I suspect they are smart enough to realize that.

Soon enough we will see something new from Apple, most likely something that exists already, but which nobody now takes seriously. The pundits will tell us that it will never sell. And it will explode onto the market and Samsung, HTC, Microsoft etc etc will be desperately trying to catch up once again. This is how Apple operates. Tablets and phones are already in a holding pattern and they are working on the next opportunity to blow our minds.

 

[Dolby]

I know what and how a patent works - I didn't mean a single patent lasts for hundreds of years - but rather over the last few hundreds of years we've had millions of products and patents etc.

From the other thread where Apple loses the case, it seems Gospel according to Dolby was correct. I guess the courts see it the same as me and think 'wtf Apple?'

In hindsight, I'm glad Steve wasn't around longer and patented the wheel and everything round.

EDIT : On a more serious note, I'd like to understand and learn a little more about patents - as I have little knowledge of exactly what they entail. I'm never though that one could patent - for example - a TV, a mobile phone, a wheel, a black box or anything that exists already. Apple didn't create the tablet - it was around already.

As for the design (which I think is their main 'concern') - how else do you create a tablet? It consists of a flat screen and a bevel? There is only so much you can do to differentiate your product

 

[[)roi(]]

I looked for sales figures before posting - but I can't find any ... nothing supporting your view that they're flopping or my view that they're doing very well. In my own experience though, 12 months ago all I read and heard about was Apple iPad.

You really didn't try did you: (in a few minutes of Googling it was easy to find a lot supporting Apple current dominance)

Google:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ipad+worldwide+stats&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&source=hp&q=tablet+market+share&pbx=1&oq=tablet+market+share&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=526611l526611l6l526883l1l1l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=2357ca502caff1a7&biw=1251&bih=1308

Examples:
http://9to5google.com/2011/09/14/idc-android-tablet-market-share-to-increase-in-q4-ipad-2-still-dominates/

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/report-android-steals-20-of-tablet-market-share-from-ipad/54880

http://allthingsd.com/20111107/apples-share-of-the-2011-tablet-market-75-percent-or-more/

http://www.researchinchina.com/Htmls/Report/2011/6068.html

In the last 6 months, my brother bought a Samsung 7" ; my stepbrother bought a Samsung 10.1 to compliment both his iPad 1 and 2 ; he then recommended the Galaxy over the iPad to my stepfather - who ended up buying it over the iPad.

By the way, USA is hardly the market for all things good. They get the sales due the 330 million population and they're very patriotic - but not all things that sell are the best. Didn't the PS3 receive a lukewarm response in the US market? Aren't American cars considered pretty crappy by European standards - yet they sell?

I too bought a Samsung 10" tablet (a decision I unfortunately came to regret, I should have bought the Xoom instead).

You can of course try to argue away market sales stats as much as you like, (by even discounting certain terroritories), but that unfortunately still won't support a picture where Android tablets dominate.

If you however look at the recent China tablet PC Market Survey that I provided as the 4th example above, you will see that even in Samsung's home terroritory it has failed to gain sufficient traction even though it was the most aggressive to launch a competing tablet (i.e. the 7") -- even HP outperformed it, only possibly because it did fire sale.

I'm in IT - we're got both sales and engineers. Almost all the sales guys have iPads - and all the IT guys ave Androids. I went to one of the IT guys and told him about users on here with both and mentioned the poor performance of the Android.

His reply was that if Android was at limited and locked as an iPad - and could only browse, Facebook, News, Twiiter and games - it's just as stable. His Android was just as stable when he bought it, but being in IT he tweaks. - and that's when things aren't always on par.

The point is that most have to make tweaks to try and stabilize the experience (at least in the case of my Galaxy 10.1).

Techies as much as you would like it to be do not make up the majority of the tablet populace, sorry but statements like that only support the notion that Android is still in many ways a techie solution.

The next biggest thing (Android) is Amazon's Fire, which I believe will be a success even if you only consider the price. The sad part is that it is Android in "soul" only -- the Google Android look and apps have been completely stripped.

Of course in a year or 2 the stats will look a lot different, but for now Android is still struggling to find its feet.

 

[[)roi(]]

I'm not a huge tweaker - but it's in reply to some that say the Galaxy software is buggy. Our engineer says if he limits what he can do, his software is perfectly stable and he says, even faster

Clearly he doesn't own a Galaxy Tab 10.1 (otherwise his view should support my disdain for anything Samsung, ... maybe the Galaxy Nexus will change my view)

 

[Dolby]

I'm a little confused :/

I say the Samsung Galaxy Tab is a threat to the iPad - and you're showing me links about the iPad market share dropped 10% last year and will continue to do so over the next few years?

So they're consistently losing share from this point onwards - and yet in the same breath you say they're the best by miles, with nothing being able to touch them and not worried about any threat?

It doesn't make sense in my mind

EDIT : ... and I was looking or sales figures of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 which has only been out 5 months or so? So I wanted to compare the two in the last 5 months.

That web usage graph is everything in the market regardless of the time in the market? So the iPad has what - 2 years to get to the 87.6%?

 

[Dolby]

While we're throwing some figures around, http://ipod.about.com/od/ipadmodelsandterms/f/ipad-sales-to-date.htm

At 3 months, they were at 3.27 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Tab

A week after its release, Samsung announced that they had sold 600,000 units.[42] On the 4 December, it was reported that the 1 million mark was reached, two months after launch.[43] In January 2011 Samsung announced they had shipped 2 million units to stores.

If the iPad set records with sales, then this 'dud' of a tablet that isn't 'anywhere near the competition' doesn't seem to be lagging far behind. I mean as you see, it's eaten into the market share will continue to every ... single ... year

The only difference is what we're saying is you believe the Apple is a 10/10 product with no competition anywhere near it at all. I - on the other hand - feel it's more a 6 or 7/10 with competition snapping at it's heels.

 

[[)roi(]]

While we're throwing some figures around, http://ipod.about.com/od/ipadmodelsandterms/f/ipad-sales-to-date.htm

At 3 months, they were at 3.27 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Tab

A week after its release, Samsung announced that they had sold 600,000 units.[42] On the 4 December, it was reported that the 1 million mark was reached, two months after launch.[43] In January 2011 Samsung announced they had shipped 2 million units to stores.

If the iPad set records with sales, then this 'dud' of a tablet that isn't 'anywhere near the competition' doesn't seem to be lagging far behind. I mean as you see, it's eaten into the market share will continue to every ... single ... year

Shipped vs Sold? -- one indicates success, the other one can be a good indicator of manufacturing incompetence, example are: Playbook, HP TouchPad,... Not a good comparison sorry

Much as you try to substantiate your point of view; the facts don't support this. You'd would be better off comparing iPad1's sales to Samsung's netbooks or pen tablet computers i.e. the touch tablet market did not exist prior to the iPad1.

The only difference is what we're saying is you believe the Apple is a 10/10 product with no competition anywhere near it at all. I - on the other hand - feel it's more a 6 or 7/10 with competition snapping at it's heels.

You again have me stunned by some of your blatant statements...

I've in fact said quite the contrary; Android hardware is on spec or better (yet there is some debate as to why big + faster is required re Microsoft's recent statement), where I believe they currently falter is with Android and the lack of good quality apps supporting the form factor...

 

[[)roi(]]

I'm a little confused :/

I say the Samsung Galaxy Tab is a threat to the iPad - and you're showing me links about the iPad market share dropped 10% last year and will continue to do so over the next few years?

So they're consistently losing share from this point onwards - and yet in the same breath you say they're the best by miles, with nothing being able to touch them and not worried about any threat?

It doesn't make sense in my mind

EDIT : ... and I was looking or sales figures of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 which has only been out 5 months or so? So I wanted to compare the two in the last 5 months.

That web usage graph is everything in the market regardless of the time in the market? So the iPad has what - 2 years to get to the 87.6%?

My last statement was

Of course in a year or 2 the stats will look a lot different, but for now Android is still struggling to find its feet.

So what's your point?

If you like to "beat a dead horse" then let's compare the Galaxy Tab 10.1 launch sales to iPad2 launch sales... or post that if you like... I'll let you Google that one (...hint is not what you want it to be)

 

[Dolby]

You'd would be better off comparing iPad1's sales to Samsung's netbooks or pen tablet computers i.e. the touch tablet market did exist prior to the iPad1.

12 months ago the iPad was far ahead of the competition in pretty much all regards. No point in looking at any stats for then. The competition is now so current stats are of more importance.

Oh - and about stats not supporting .... do your articles not support that Android is a threat to Apple? Losing 10% market share in a year to competitors would scare me? Especially as those competitors have increased almost exponentially

I've in fact said quite the contrary; Android hardware is on spec or better (yet there is some debate as to why big + faster is required re Microsoft's recent statement), where I believe they currently falter is with Android and the lack of good quality apps supporting the form factor...

I'm not talking about YOU specifically - but you can't deny that you get people (a fair amount are iPad owners) who love thinking they own the best device in the world and nothing comes anywhere near it. Truth is things do come very, very close to it ... and Apple realise this

 

[[)roi(]]

12 months ago the iPad was far ahead of the competition in pretty much all regards. No point in looking at any stats for then. The competition is now so current stats are of more importance.

Sorry but it wasn't me who referenced the iPad1 vs Galaxy 7" stats

Oh - and about stats not supporting .... do your articles not support that Android is a threat to Apple? Losing 10% market share in a year to competitors would scare me? Especially as those competitors have increased almost exponentially

Isn't that what I've said... The market share stats will look a lot different in a year from now, of course Android won't always falter in the tablet area, but for now it is behind -- due in large to the OS and apps, not the hardware spec which in many examples is better than Apple.

I'm not talking about YOU specifically -

Thanks I kinda thought it was getting personal at one point

but you can't deny that you get people (a fair amount are iPad owners) who love thinking they own the best device in the world and nothing comes anywhere near it. Truth is things do come very, very close to it ... and Apple realise this

This is probably one point where we'll agree to disagree; I do believe the iPad is the best tablet solution at the moment (re its currently the best amalgamation of hardware, OS and Apps), of course in time this could change...

 

[Dolby]

SThis is probably one point where we'll agree to disagree

+1

 

[[)roi(]]

+1

Lol, at least there is something we can both agree upon.