Iraq war officially a Crusade

[Palimino]

and you have proof that they're "enforcing" this on the Iraqis?

I never claimed that. I was answering your question:

Why do you obsess with the "American system"? What exactly do you mean by it

I responded:

American system = rampant capitalism (obsessive about $$ & profit), virulently anti-socialist, “sue me, sue you” philosophy, nannyish, parenting practices dubious (lots of indulged brats), etc.

The West = much socialism (Europe) and a drastically toned-down everything else.

Other cultures = even more alien.

Your post.

Rubbish. The U.S troops are as "tough" as anybody. Any person who done the slightest bit of research on the Iraq war would know this.

As for American coddling the last time I checked in the U.S if you don't work your ass off you're not guaranteed health insurance or an education. However their European cousins are given it all for free. In Europe there are millions of people leaching off the state doing nothing. Lenient work hours and cushy benefits galore.


Evidently you don't have no clue what you're talking about

I base my ‘American coddling’ remark on the spread of Hollywood realities (the means by which American values are propagated). , Hollywood floods the world with movies. As well as cognitive dissonances with normal reality, they are making an error in giving 3rd world have-nots an insight into the American psyche (Hollywood’s divergence from reality with the ‘American Dream’ is pretty gross).

In American prison movies (which I am sure are ‘dramatised’ to make conditions worse) we are shown that American prisons have gymnasiums, libraries, study programs, a reliable 3 meals a day, TV’s, conjugal rights, unions and a pretty decent environment. This is luxury beyond belief to the average ‘free’ adult in SA – something to aspire to and make a life goal. It’s a sad indictment of a country when the **prison conditions** of another country are better than the living conditions of the average citizen.

In American military movies, the unbelievable harshness of training is shown by having a short haircut and a nasty drill sergeant who shouts all the time. I also understand that soldiers have a union. PUHLEEZE! We are also shown the twatty behaviour of American troops on patrol in Viet Nam and are expected to sympathise with them. That kind of military stupidity does not deserve to survive. Viva! Viet Cong. Viva!

I watched a teen-angst movie recently where the protagonists were in a reformatory. They had rehabilitation programs, which took them to places with spectacular scenery and supplied them with a myriad of survival gadgets. I watched unbelievingly as a shiny, new backpack was discarded and, if they didn’t know how to work a gadget, they threw it away. SA street children spring to mind.

Really irritating stuff intrudes on my suspension of belief. The Hollywood idea of the protagonist expressing severe anger or frustration is to sweep everything off the table and onto the floor or to break stuff. The American criminal is so craven that by shaking him by the lapels and shouting, they cave. Note - this is regarded as a hostile action in most countries. American’s could end picking up their teeth from the floor. Also, why do they like running so much? Chases are interminable. Etc. Dramatic license is no excuse. This says something about American values.

 

[WilD_CaT]

I am confused. Do you dislike America, their politics or Hollywood?

Sounds like you disagree with hollywood. Thats cool. I think your critisicism is fair, that hollywood puts forth a mostly one-sided view of the world with a certain, pro-American bias.

However, hollywood is in it for the money. If that is what people want and are willing to pay for, to be hold how awesome they are, then why not make money off of it.

If you don't like it, don't watch the movies.

 

[WilD_CaT]

In American prison movies (which I am sure are ‘dramatised’ to make conditions worse) we are shown that American prisons have gymnasiums, libraries, study programs, a reliable 3 meals a day, TV’s, conjugal rights, unions and a pretty decent environment. This is luxury beyond belief to the average ‘free’ adult in SA – something to aspire to and make a life goal. It’s a sad indictment of a country when the **prison conditions** of another country are better than the living conditions of the average citizen.

More of a criticism of SA than the states. Unless you believe prisoners should live in the worst conceivable conditions.

I watched a teen-angst movie recently where the protagonists were in a reformatory. They had rehabilitation programs, which took them to places with spectacular scenery and supplied them with a myriad of survival gadgets. I watched unbelievingly as a shiny, new backpack was discarded and, if they didn’t know how to work a gadget, they threw it away. SA street children spring to mind.

Again more of a criticism of SA than the states.

Really irritating stuff intrudes on my suspension of belief. The Hollywood idea of the protagonist expressing severe anger or frustration is to sweep everything off the table and onto the floor or to break stuff. The American criminal is so craven that by shaking him by the lapels and shouting, they cave. Note - this is regarded as a hostile action in most countries. American’s could end picking up their teeth from the floor. Also, why do they like running so much? Chases are interminable. Etc. Dramatic license is no excuse. This says something about American values.

Its a movie, not reality. Jees. If you don't like don't watch. Thats the beauty of being "free" (One of the founding principles of the States, even if a lot of principles from that era have been forgotten).

Its a choice YOU have.

 

[Palimino]

I am confused. Do you dislike America, their politics or Hollywood?

I don’t dislike America. Certain American habits and Hollywood are irritating.

Sounds like you disagree with hollywood. Thats cool. I think your critisicism is fair, that hollywood puts forth a mostly one-sided view of the world with a certain, pro-American bias.

What is really dismaying, is I believe much of American behaviour is unconscious. Hollywood don’t realise what an impact the prolifregate waste has on have-nots in other parts of the world. This sense of entitlement is a major cause of irritation. One can assume certain attention is paid to the protagonist, but the behaviour in the background (in a street scene) is uncontrollable.

However, hollywood is in it for the money. If that is what people want and are willing to pay for, to be hold how awesome they are, then why not make money off of it.

And the American market is the biggest. So even with the ‘dramatisation’ of prisons to make conditions worse (for eg.) they are still enviable.

If you don't like it, don't watch the movies.

Hard to avoid them.

 

[WilD_CaT]

What is really dismaying, is I believe much of American behaviour is unconscious. Hollywood don’t realise what an impact the prolifregate waste has on have-nots in other parts of the world. This sense of entitlement is a major cause of irritation. One can assume certain attention is paid to the protagonist, but the behaviour in the background (in a street scene) is uncontrollable.

Unfortunately bud you just come across as jealous. They have lots, thus they "waste" a lot, and this irritates you and others who have less. So because they have stuff they should be condemned! Sounds very....Marxish to me.

I get it. If the waste was given to others, then it will be put to "better" use. But you criticized them for their feeling of "entitlement" and it just sounds like you feel entitled to a piece of their success. If someone has money and they waste it, tough. It is their money. They get to determine what they may do with it. You or I or anyone else has no say. To complain and say it could be used "better" shows a lack of understanding of economics (Why voluntary trade begets wealth)

American public education sucks which is probably why a lot of Americans seem "dumb" to many foreigners. I mean they don't know much if anything about any other country, or vegetables, or where popcorn comes from.

And the American market is the biggest. So even with the ‘dramatisation’ of prisons to make conditions worse (for eg.) they are still enviable.

I don't see the point you are trying to make.

That the hollywood industry makes films for its biggest market? Correct, so would I.

That prisons are enviable in the U.S? Again, not sure if that is an argument or you just stating an observation. If the conditions are better then that is a good thing right?

Hard to avoid them.

Really? Its hard not to watch TV or go to a movie? I think that shows more of a lack of control on your part. Read a book then.

The point I am getting at is that watching hollywood films is voluntary. It is not forced on you. You are attempting to justify or provide reasons for your views, but your reasons are illogical.

If you were expecting something else, then maybe you can complain. But as you say, this sort of thing is shown in lots of films. It is expected now. If you still keep watching films and they disappoint you, and you keep going back, then thats more your fault than theirs.

 

[Palimino]

Unfortunately bud you just come across as jealous. They have lots, thus they "waste" a lot, and this irritates you and others who have less. So because they have stuff they should be condemned! Sounds very....Marxish to me.

Oddly enough, no. I am personally ascetic. Even if I could indulge in such waste, I wouldn’t. However, everyone is not me. I have always been slightly uneasy at American waste. Good stuff came from America as well. Maybe that was the price that had to be paid. The climate crisis changed everything. American waste was now threatening my life (incredible amounts of pollution, energy, etc. are required for waste on the American scale).

If someone has money and they waste it, tough. It is their money. They get to determine what they may do with it. You or I or anyone else has no say. To complain and say it could be used "better" shows a lack of understanding of economics (Why voluntary trade begets wealth).

It might be their money but it has been attained through dubious means. I recall listening to a financial analyst from Lloyds Bank (at the beginning of the crisis) who was beside himself with anger – this was in the early days of the meltdown. His thesis was that the rest of the globe have been funding the American Dream due to them flogging their toxic crap all over (CDO’s & whatnot). Who cares if the citizens of a 3rd world country starve and countries go bankrupt as long as Americans can wipe their bottoms with fluffy toilet paper – regular 2-ply is too harsh for American bums – and have holiday homes and cars all round.

The Wall Street boffins put together a complex and sophisticated financial unit (CDO’s?). Greenspan passed it for international investment (if he had kept it local, only the American economy would have gone down the plug). From what I understand, the CDO instrument is made-up of segments of tasty investments from the American economy – home loans being one. When the sub-prime poo hit the fan, it rendered the home loan segments of the CDO worthless, but it also dragged-down all other segments – rendering the whole CDO worthless. There was massive international investment. Fast-forward to today.

I don't see the point you are trying to make.

The point is that the rest of the market has been crowded out. The SABC are in financial dwang which means they buy job-lots of cheapo Hollywood B features (even worse than normal Hollywood fare). That’s all there is. I am reading far more now, but I would still like a choice. It doesn’t seem right that mediums such as cinema and TV should be debased by a single entity. “You have a choice – Hollywood or Hollywood or gung-ho America or ‘Aren’t American values wonderful’”.

That prisons are enviable in the U.S? Again, not sure if that is an argument or you just stating an observation. If the conditions are better then that is a good thing right?

It’s a prison (for baddies) not a hotel. The conditions should be adequate for prisoners who are paying their debt to society. Sufficient food, security and medical care. THAT’S ALL.