Is MS Office Really More Capable than OpenOffice/LibreOffice?

InvisibleJim said:
Not sure that's exactly what they mean but they also link to

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/Writer_Guide/Inserting_notes

Which looks (at first glance very similar to comments in Word.)

I'll have a play with it in Open Office when I have chance and see how it actually works.
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OpenOffice needs someone like Google to take them over, they understand UE a lot better than Microsoft IMO (seeing how they're scrambling for second place online)

The other problem OpenOffice faces are the cramsession fed MS certification junkies that flood the IT sector.
 
Fudzy said:
Office 2013 also allows it now, IINM it wasn't until they opened the PDF spec that either apps could do it without paying royalties to Adobe.
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Interesting. I haven't tried 2013 yet and I wasn't aware of that feature. Not sure how long ago Adobe opened up the PDF spec off the top of my head but the OpenOffice PDF import was originally relesed before Oracle took over Sun (Beta when I first saw it I think.)

Current link to the OO extension is :http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/pdfimport

Take note of the caveat at the bottom:

Please notice: Use this extension cautiously as editing PDF files is not a trivial task. Encouraged by the huge number of positive comments and the improved quality of this extension, we decided to remove the Beta tag from this release. Of course we will continue to work on this extension to reflect user needs and any changes to the PDF standard. To further improve this extension, please continue sending us feedback at [email protected].
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Having tried to edit a number of pdf documents in the past, I think that's a fairly reasonable comment. It will be interesting to see how MS 2013 handles it.
 
InvisibleJim said:
Interesting. I haven't tried 2013 yet and I wasn't aware of that feature. Not sure how long ago Adobe opened up the PDF spec off the top of my head but the OpenOffice PDF import was originally relesed before Oracle took over Sun (Beta when I first saw it I think.)

Current link to the OO extension is :http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/pdfimport

Take note of the caveat at the bottom:



Having tried to edit a number of pdf documents in the past, I think that's a fairly reasonable comment. It will be interesting to see how MS 2013 handles it.
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Yeah I'm used to using DTP packages that offer the functionality. There are a couple of free and online apps that do the job but it's always messy. Worst is trying to explain to somebody why I can't convert their scanned document.
 
Fudzy said:
OpenOffice needs someone like Google to take them over, they understand UE a lot better than Microsoft IMO (seeing how they're scrambling for second place online)
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Now that OpenOffice is in the Apache stable, we'll have to see what happens. Google don't really need to take over Open Office - if anyone can take the source code and bend it to their own aims, it's probably Google and they are quite free to do so.

I believe LibreOffice have an online version in the works. Not sure on the ETA though.
 
Fudzy said:
The other problem OpenOffice faces are the cramsession fed MS certification junkies that flood the IT sector.
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Lol. My fetish for considering non-MS technologies (including FOSS and Google) that might add value to our business has already marked me as a dangerous subversive in certain sectors and limiits my chances of becoming Head God of IT in our parent group.:whistle:
 
I can add a simple example that put me off open office and back on (pirated) MS Office: Locale settings. In MS Office, the locale settings (in this case, the number format settings specifically) are taken from the Windows locale settings, which are customisable. Open office has it's own list of standards for each locale.

So, being who I am, I [-]want[/-] demand that my currency decimal be a comma and my currency symbol to be one space away from my first digit (R 50 392,35), my normal decimal be a point and my thousands separator be a space (50 392.35). I have several JSE Top 40 financial statements proving that this is the de facto and industry standard way of presenting data. Can I do this in open office? NOooooo. Open office knows best! South Africa locale settings are set in stone based on god knows what reference (maybe a 1977 government gazette or something) and there's no way to fix them.

And that actually gives away the attitude of the developers. "Take it or leave it.", "You're getting it for free, so shut up and like it, or **** off." And like InvisibleJim said, the code may be open source, but modifying it is definitely not for amateurs. So back to MS I went.
 
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Drunkard #1 said:
I can add a simple example that put me off open office and back on (pirated) MS Office: Locale settings. In MS Office, the locale settings (in this case, the number format settings specifically) are taken from the Windows locale settings, which are customisable. Open office has it's own list of standards for each locale.

So, being who I am, I [-]want[/-] demand that my currency decimal be a comma and my currency symbol to be one space away from my first digit (R 50 392,35), my normal decimal be a point and my thousands separator be a space (50 392.35). I have several JSE Top 40 financial statements proving that this is the de facto and industry standard way of presenting data. Can I do this in open office? NOooooo. Open office knows best! South Africa locale settings are set in stone based on god knows what reference (maybe a 1977 government gazette or something) and there's no way to fix them.

And that actually gives away the attitude of the developers. "Take it or leave it.", "You're getting it for free, so shut up and like it, or **** off." And like InvisibleJim said, the code may be open source, but modifying it is definitely not for amateurs. So back to MS I went.
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That's a little bit of a surpise as open source applications generally aim for a good level of internationalisation.
Ref number formats, I'm a Pommie and where I come from, a comma is always a thousand separator (if you use a thousand separator at all) and a decimal separator is always a decimal point. Until I moved here, I was unaware that a comma was used as a decimal separator in South Africa. I think France and some other countries may have traditionally used a comma as a decimal separator but I don't know if that you could consider it de facto standard worldwide. I can see how non South African Developers could easily get that wrong,

Does open office not give you the capability to easily create custom formats though the same as MS Office does? I'll have to check but I think they both work in a very similar way with no coding required (apologies if I've missed something with your post.)
 
InvisibleJim said:
That's a little bit of a surpise as open source applications generally aim for a good level of internationalisation.
Ref number formats, I'm a Pommie and where I come from, a comma is always a thousand separator (if you use a thousand separator at all) and a decimal separator is always a decimal point. Until I moved here, I was unaware that a comma was used as a decimal separator in South Africa. I think France and some other countries may have traditionally used a comma as a decimal separator but I don't know if that you could consider it de facto standard worldwide. I can see how non South African Developers could easily get that wrong,

Does open office not give you the capability to easily create custom formats though the same as MS Office does? I'll have to check but I think they both work in a very similar way with no coding required (apologies if I've missed something with your post.)
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Do you use Windows or Linux? What I think he's saying is in the Windows regional settings you can create a custom format which MS products adopt.
 
Fudzy said:
Do you use Windows or Linux? What I think he's saying is in the Windows regional settings you can create a custom format which MS products adopt.
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Mostly Windows. I think I see where he was coming from now.
 
InvisibleJim said:
That's a little bit of a surpise as open source applications generally aim for a good level of internationalisation.
Ref number formats, I'm a Pommie and where I come from, a comma is always a thousand separator (if you use a thousand separator at all) and a decimal separator is always a decimal point. Until I moved here, I was unaware that a comma was used as a decimal separator in South Africa. I think France and some other countries may have traditionally used a comma as a decimal separator but I don't know if that you could consider it de facto standard worldwide. I can see how non South African Developers could easily get that wrong,

Does open office not give you the capability to easily create custom formats though the same as MS Office does? I'll have to check but I think they both work in a very similar way with no coding required (apologies if I've missed something with your post.)
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The world's shrinking, so we need to present numbers as unambiguously as possible. Using a comma for a thousands separator makes a South African wonder whether the number 50,392 is fifty thousand three hundred and ninety two, or fifty point three nine two. Some countries use a point as a thousands separator, so the same problem applies to 50.392 . IMO, the most reasonable choice for a thousands separator is space. Nobody uses a space as a decimal separator. We could also use an apostrophe, but that seems to make the digits cluttered. Using a point as a decimal separator is by far the most popular option internationally, so I stick with that. It might not be an international standard yet, but locally it is almost universally adopted.

The problem with open office is that the South Africa locale settings are wrong, and there's no way to fix them because open office takes it's locale settings from a static file rather than the windows locale settings, and provides no way to fix that file.

The custom number formats don't work. I tried. You end up with too many spaces since you need to create each thousand separator individually, if that makes any sense. The spaces aren't dynamic - they don't disappear if there are fewer digits, they appear before the digits.

Edit: from wikipedia:

The problem with the point and the comma as either decimal mark or digit group separator is that, internationally, they have both often been used for both meanings, and their meaning is context-dependent (one must know which notational system is being used in order to interpret them). Therefore the space is recommended in the SI/ISO 31-0 standard,[12] and the International Bureau of Weights and Measures states that "for numbers with many digits the digits may be divided into groups of three by a thin space, in order to facilitate reading. Neither dots nor commas are inserted in the spaces between groups of three".[13] Other style-defining bodies are also moving toward this clearer notation. For example, the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) suggest never using a comma or a point as thousands separator: "For numbers with many digits, the digits may be separated in groups of three, counting from the decimal sign toward the left and the right. The groups should be separated by a thin space (half space), and never by a comma or a point, or by any other means."[14] The American Medical Association, whose AMA Manual of Style is widely followed in health professions literature, also endorses a space for the digit group separator.[11] (Specifically, a thin space is endorsed for typesetting; a regular word space is sufficient wherever typographical nicety is impractical.) The United Kingdom Metrication Board also proposed this system for Metrication in the United Kingdom and, while not universally adopted, it is the standard in the UK construction industry.
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Why open office refuses to follow the advice of several international standards setting bodies is baffling.
 
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A commonly cited reason for adoption of OpenOffice / LibreOffice is the stability of the file format that allows for longer term archiving of documents. MS Office has a tendency to break compatibility after a while.

The organisations that go with MS Office tend to do so because of the higher level of functionality.

Pet peeve: When inserting an image into OpenOffice (and there can be a lot for a technical report), the software seems to put the image wherever it wants. Then comes all the editing of image handles to get things where they were meant to be in the first place. The extra time taken on just one report more than pays for a copy of MS Word.
 
garyc said:
Pet peeve: When inserting an image into OpenOffice (and there can be a lot for a technical report), the software seems to put the image wherever it wants. Then comes all the editing of image handles to get things where they were meant to be in the first place. The extra time taken on just one report more than pays for a copy of MS Word.
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This. Wife designs flyers etc for her creche using OO, and it's not easy getting things to go where you want them. Also, compatibility is broken with these sort of documents between OpenOffice and LibreOffice. Busy looking at alternatives (free) to use in this regard.

On the other hand, if you can't afford M$ Office, then it might be worthwhile to use Open/Libre Office.
 
The_Librarian said:
This. Wife designs flyers etc for her creche using OO, and it's not easy getting things to go where you want them. Also, compatibility is broken with these sort of documents between OpenOffice and LibreOffice. Busy looking at alternatives (free) to use in this regard.

On the other hand, if you can't afford M$ Office, then it might be worthwhile to use Open/Libre Office.
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Rather use InkScape
 
I prefer Libre office to OO. Sure MS office can do VBA stuff but in all honesty how many users actually require that?
 
Rocket-Boy said:
I prefer Libre office to OO. Sure MS office can do VBA stuff but in all honesty how many users actually require that?
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I used it pretty extensively recently for my project; and the things we implemented will become organisation-wide standards. Again we're talking about how capable one suite is over another. The other side of Word that I came to appreciate is the deep level of XML integration. But as with VBA, I don't know how or if OO/LO works with XML so it's just an observation; I was able to achieve some quite powerful results with straightforward XML schema work.
 
I must be the odd one out here. I prefer Google Docs. Mainly because I can have it open faster than either MS Office or OpenOffice, and it integrates really well with gmail. Collaboration worked well for me too.
 
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