Is this normal for physiotherapy practice

maumau

maumau

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
23,457
Reaction score
8,195
Location
Northwold
Two weeks ago I twisted my ankle and feel flat on my face in the garden :D

X-rays showed there was only soft tissue damage so I went for a nice foot massage at the physiotherapist.

She spent the first 20 minutes talking notes about my general health, asked me too walk towards her, away from her, stand on one leg, bend over backwards, swing from the chandelier etc, etc.

The next 10 minutes she measured my foot, ankle and leg to establish how much swelling there was. Eventually she massages my foot for 10 minutes, measures to see how much the swelling has reduced and says "I'm going to call a physiotherapist to have a look"!!!!!!

Physio looks at my foot, original lady puts a bandage on it and off I go.

Turns out the person I saw is still studying and isn't qualified. Do you guys think that's OK.
 
If you weren't made aware of that up front and were charged full rates then no it's not right at all
 
Sounds dodgy... but this thread gives me Deja Vu... didn't we discuss this once before?
 
LazyLion said:
Sounds dodgy... but this thread gives me Deja Vu... didn't we discuss this once before?
Click to expand...

It's possible LazyLion, not me because I haven't been to physio for 7/8 years. Perhaps I just didn't see the thread.

Like ToxicBunny says, they should have mentioned it up front. I'm going to check with medical aid what was charged.
 
I've had this exact same bs with a Biokinetisist, bait and switch, book the real deal, arrive and be told the student will be seeing me but don't worry the main lady will supervise. Bait and switch but still get charged the full rate. Was not happy and if it happens again I am planning on having the gumption to confront the lady there and then.

They do put you in a real bind though, you are sitting all pleasant in the waiting room and they rock up ambush, Hi so-and-so is going to be looking after you today - you have to make a scene in front of everyone and kind of imply the main service provider is being scaly and that you think the student is useless.

I really don't think it's ethical not to advise the patient beforehand and/or allow them the choice of using the student or not, or perhaps making it cheaper to compensate etc.
My plan at the time was to confirm future bookings are with the actual Biokinetisist over the phone when making the booking, pointedly ask if would be seeing a student or not and make it known that that would not be acceptable.
 
So it's not unusual!!!

I wouldn't choose a student unless it was for something minor and they didnt charge full price. I'll check with medical aid but they'll probably pay if physio was done.

Like you say, it's the actual physio or biokineticist screwing the patients over. Easy to employ a few students and rake in the money.
 
Started reading the story, thought it would end with someone's finger inside the other person.

Disappointed.
 
Yeah, I would not accept this. You're paying for professional time. Not for someone still learning
 
I'm a doctor not a physio, but i definitely have an answer for this. I assume the same rules would apply to medical students and physio students. I see no reason why they wouldn't.

This is extremely unethical and as far as I know, also illegal. All students are registered with the Health Professionals Council of SA [HPCSA] and are only allowed to gain experience in the public sector under direct supervision of a qualified medical professoinal. ALL private work is strictly forbidden. I know someone who did a locum when he was an intern doctor, so not even a student, the HPCSA found out and he lost his licence.

Even in the public sector, whenever i saw a patient as a student, i was told in no uncertain terms to make it clear from the start that i was a student and the doctor would be supervising me. We had to have our student cards or at the very least a name badge with the university's badge on it visible at all times,

How they think they could get away with this is beyond me. If they didn't even tell you they were a student at the start of the consultation then they are, at the very least, unprofessional. I would contact the practice and speak to the manager and ask them about this. If it is indeed an unsupervised student who saw you, then ask for the student's HPCSA registration number and report it.
 
Tks notinterested, you'd expect to be told up front for sure.

I'm going to pursue it in a week or two. The lady I saw is leaving the practice this month to move out of the area so I can phone and ask her full name and take it from there.
 
notinterested said:
I'm a doctor not a physio, but i definitely have an answer for this. I assume the same rules would apply to medical students and physio students. I see no reason why they wouldn't.

This is extremely unethical and as far as I know, also illegal. All students are registered with the Health Professionals Council of SA [HPCSA] and are only allowed to gain experience in the public sector under direct supervision of a qualified medical professoinal. ALL private work is strictly forbidden. I know someone who did a locum when he was an intern doctor, so not even a student, the HPCSA found out and he lost his licence.

Even in the public sector, whenever i saw a patient as a student, i was told in no uncertain terms to make it clear from the start that i was a student and the doctor would be supervising me. We had to have our student cards or at the very least a name badge with the university's badge on it visible at all times,

How they think they could get away with this is beyond me. If they didn't even tell you they were a student at the start of the consultation then they are, at the very least, unprofessional. I would contact the practice and speak to the manager and ask them about this. If it is indeed an unsupervised student who saw you, then ask for the student's HPCSA registration number and report it.
Click to expand...

You mean even working under a supervisor in a private practice is illegal, student work must be done at a public hospital?
 
We often have students shadowing us. Before any assessment or session we ask the patient if they are fine with a student watching.
Some are fine with it, some aren't. Don't feel bad for saying no, it is your money you are spending.

Some are even fine with the students doing the assessment/session, but we make sure they are supervised at all times.

If it was just a student working on you with no physio present, I would make sure I was not charged full medical aid rates as you did not get the service you paid for
 
In my experience the students were better than the teacher. Knowledge still fresh in their head and eager to prove their worth.
But yes, I would like to know this beforehand. Not too worried about the bill, if the work done to me is of the same level or even higher then by all means continue.

Earlier this year I was actually happy for student. My SO went to the doctor because her face was swollen and red. Doc and student combo. And it was our family Doc, been with her for 10 years now.
She poked and felt the face. just started to write out some medication. The student was not happy and said because both student an dDoc had no idea really that my SO must be reffered. After a few minutes of argy bargy they reffered my SO. ended up a week in Hospital with COllitus (or something to that effect) , nearly lost her skin in her face.

Fresh eyes are not all bad...
 
airborne said:
You mean even working under a supervisor in a private practice is illegal, student work must be done at a public hospital?
Click to expand...

Medical students are only allowed to be in a private practice with permission from the university as part of their family medicine rotation so that they are exposed to what a family practitioner does. It is a part of their training. They may never be employed to actually work there, which seems to be what is happening with student physiotherapists according to op's post. As i said, i see no reason why the HPCSA rules would be different for med students and physio students. The fact that these students are apparently being employed at these practises and remunerated for doing consultations is extremely dodgy.

Charging someone less to see a student does not solve the problem. The reason that training and private practise is kept strictly separate is because there would be a possible conflict of interests for the student. He/she would want to learn from the experience of seeing patients [which is the point of training in the first place] but is also helping the practise owner to run a business and make money. The possibility is that they would compromise their experience of seeing a patient at the expense of a proper training experience because, for example, the owner wants to push more patients and make more money. There are more reasons, but the financial implications are the main ones.

Again, I am speaking from my experience as a medical student and intern doctor where private work is strictly forbidden. If this is not the case for physios and other health professionals, i would be very surprised and even worried that they are being used as employees instead of focusing on their training.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X