iTunes alternative ?

[DrJohnZoidberg]

Equipment IMO makes no difference... as I said I have never heard any difference.

Please show me the proof? Remember the point about the test, is that you can test this for yourself, using your own equipment. So far I have not seen any justification for the inconvenience of this format.

Are you asking that I provide proof that a good quality DAC will provide better audio than an onboard soundcard?

I can clearly hear the difference in quality when listening from my Focusrite adapter than when using onboard audio. Of course it's subjective but I'll give you some proof if you want it, just tricky finding the right peer reviewed articles that aren't behind paywalls.

 

[[)roi(]]

Are you asking that I provide proof that a good quality DAC will provide better audio than an onboard soundcard?

I can clearly hear the difference in quality when listening from my Focusrite adapter than when using onboard audio. Of course it's subjective but I'll give you some proof if you want it, just tricky finding the right peer reviewed articles that aren't behind paywalls.

Nope Equipment sound quality varies and that I agree with.

What I don't agree with is that the type of equipment makes it any easier to differentiate between FLAC vs MP4/MP4. Basically my argument is contra to FLAC; it's all pain & no gain.

 

[Dolby]

I'm not sure i understand?

The better the system, the more revealing and transparent it is as well. The more it will expose errors of the source and reveal the true quality of the source. Better equipment makes it much easier to point out badly mastered pop CDs (I threw out half of mine when I upgraded) so why would it not be the same for an MP3 and FLAC?

 

[[)roi(]]

I'm not sure i understand?

The better the system, the more revealing and transparent it is as well. The more it will expose errors of the source and reveal the true quality of the source. Better equipment makes it much easier to point out badly mastered pop CDs (I threw out half of mine when I upgraded) so why would it not be the same for an MP3 and FLAC?

Ok, let me try to make this a bit easier:
I agree FLAC is a lossless encoding.
I agree MP3 & MP4 are compression based encodings.
I agree that some torrent originated MP3 encodings are of substandard quality (blame the torrent and not the format)

What I don't agree with is that you can audibly distinguish any difference between an officially release MP3/MP4 and a FLAC encoded file. Equipment plays no part here (a better system does not make it any easier to hear differences). You simply cannot with any degree of certainty identify which one is FLAC vs MPX (we're of course ignoring those bad torrents, yes the one's we've all encountered at some point)

More to the point; an album purchased from iTunes (MP4) or Amazon (MP3) cannot be distinguished from a CD bought at Look & Listen (and of course encoded into FLAC).

FLAC then only serves as 'bragging rights'; mine is better than yours technically; but of course nothing we as humans can audibly distinguish.

So IMO to keep your music in a format like FLAC, a format which has so much accessibility limitations is all pain with no perceivable gain.

If you think I'm wrong; then show me a foolproof test we can conduct which will allow me and others to hear the 'difference'.

 

[Dolby]

Equipment plays no part here (a better system does not make it any easier to hear differences). You simply cannot with any degree of certainty identify which one is FLAC vs MPX

We can agree to disagree

Regarding the test (and I haven't done this as yet) - would you trust me if I took a CD and ripped the same track to MP3/FLAC and tested? Would you trust a review on the net? Forum?

 

[icyrus]

We can agree to disagree

Regarding the test (and I haven't done this as yet) - would you trust me if I took a CD and ripped the same track to MP3/FLAC and tested? Would you trust a review on the net? Forum?

Tests like this need to be blind.

 

[cerebus]

Thanks guys - will try those.

I run XBMC and have a number of albums in FLAC - which iTunes can't read. So I have two separate libraries.
When I add a folder, it starts playing the first 10 seconds and I can't do anything as the dialogue box won't close, so I can't stop/pause etc and can't use anything else with sound for the night.
The album art it pulls doesn't hard code into the track when it pulls

The main reason is the FLAC reason though

You could try Apple lossless format. It's proprietary but you don't have to lose your original copy.

And I know you can tell the difference between lossless and standard audio formats but you need a serious audio system to do so. Your average headphones just don't have the fidelity.

 

[KleinBoontjie]

Amarok??

 

[Dolby]

You could try Apple lossless format. It's proprietary but you don't have to lose your original copy

The proprietary format annoys me, as I really don't want an entire library stuck to an 'Apple' format :/ I've decided to simply have a SQ and HQ type folder. iTunes will point to one - XBMC to both. I'll just have to have a filter on XBMC. Not ideal, but it'll work.

On another note - do they sell music in the Apple lossless?
What's the point of it actually?
Can you get it without converting?

 

[[)roi(]]

We can agree to disagree

Regarding the test (and I haven't done this as yet) - would you trust me if I took a CD and ripped the same track to MP3/FLAC and tested? Would you trust a review on the net? Forum?

I'll be happy to be proven wrong... And
of course I would accept your process; if it of course it was reproducible by anyone.

For example: if I duplicate your process using the same CD and software I should be able to acknowledge the same inflictions.

Just remember we are talking about MPXs encoded at the same bit rate as The iTunes, Amazon,... stores i.e. you should not be comparing very low bit rate MPXs to FLAC (as that obviously would result in audible inflictions, the software to encode MPXs should also be reliable)

 

[[)roi(]]

...And I know you can tell the difference between lossless and standard audio formats but you need a serious audio system to do so. Your average headphones just don't have the fidelity.

that's exactly the point where we disagree. I would love someone to point to a test that's able to validate your opinion.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

The proprietary format annoys me, as I really don't want an entire library stuck to an 'Apple' format :/ I've decided to simply have a SQ and HQ type folder. iTunes will point to one - XBMC to both. I'll just have to have a filter on XBMC. Not ideal, but it'll work.

On another note - do they sell music in the Apple lossless?
What's the point of it actually?
Can you get it without converting?

There is practically no difference FLAC and ALAC files. ALAC will play fine on almost all decent media players. The beauty of it being lossless is that you don't have to worry about losing quality if you are unhappy with it and decide to convert back to FLAC.

 

[[)roi(]]

The proprietary format annoys me, as I really don't want an entire library stuck to an 'Apple' format :/ I've decided to simply have a SQ and HQ type folder. iTunes will point to one - XBMC to both. I'll just have to have a filter on XBMC. Not ideal, but it'll work.

On another note - do they sell music in the Apple lossless?
What's the point of it actually?
Can you get it without converting?

IMO FLAC by way of it's unpopularity with applications can equally be compared with Apple's proprietary formats.

I still believe you should consider keeping your collection in MPX format (most widely supported formats); btw the ITunes purchased bit rate btw is typically 256 kbit upward; more recently 320 kbit. Convert and be done with your issues.

 

[Dolby]

One of the problems I'm having with the conversion of a track to both MP3 and FLAC, is the volume it encodes at - which is different on both .... using the same CD, same tracks, same volume level and FreeRipBASIC. Instantly the FLAC sounds better because of this ...

Something else that one can recommend?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Just convert the FLAC stuff to ALAC.

Problem solved.

 

[SauRoNZA]

One of the problems I'm having with the conversion of a track to both MP3 and FLAC, is the volume it encodes at - which is different on both .... using the same CD, same tracks, same volume level and FreeRipBASIC. Instantly the FLAC sounds better because of this ...

Something else that one can recommend?

Rip ALAC with iTunes directly.

No need for any third party software.

 

[SauRoNZA]

The proprietary format annoys me, as I really don't want an entire library stuck to an 'Apple' format :/ I've decided to simply have a SQ and HQ type folder. iTunes will point to one - XBMC to both. I'll just have to have a filter on XBMC. Not ideal, but it'll work.

On another note - do they sell music in the Apple lossless?
What's the point of it actually?
Can you get it without converting?

iTunes Plus is 256~ bit VBR non-proprietary MP4 format.

I used to be lossless befok as well, but after spending hours testing ITunes Plus vs ALAC I eventually accepted that I simply cannot hear the difference.

iTunes Plus aka MP4 will play on just about anything except older MP3 only devices.

****

ALAC might be more proprietary but is actually much better supported than FLAC by more devices....including a surprising one being Windows Media Centre.

 

[[)roi(]]

B

One of the problems I'm having with the conversion of a track to both MP3 and FLAC, is the volume it encodes at - which is different on both .... using the same CD, same tracks, same volume level and FreeRipBASIC. Instantly the FLAC sounds better because of this ...

Something else that one can recommend?

Unfortunately there will always be differences in volumes when your music is from various sources, apps and formats.

To normalise the volume across your library try either:
1. iTunes Preference, Playback, Sound Check option (doesn't alter source).
2. http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net
3. http://mp4gain.com