Jnr Software Developer

[semaphore]

Oh gosh. Take a look at who is really providing the misinformation. Show us how much of web development is off server. Javascript is not Java. Most people do not have Java installed client side. I had but almost never got any applets and when I did there were compatibility issues. Most client side programming nowadays is done in flash. So yes it is web server development rather than web development when talking about Java.

When is the last time you actually saw a Java desktop app? It seems even more scarce than .Net. Java is really not the way to go for desktop development. I've also never seen anyone claim a great app to be written in C#. Most state they are written in C++ or C and even Delphi is still a more popular choice than C#.

As for assembly stop twisting my words. I never claimed it any way to be a necessity.

Seriously? You clearly don't have much exposure to anything do you. Flash is near almost dead firstly, most clientside is javascript, just go look at any of the massive popular social networks all javascript, no flash bar the exception of maybe some of their third party games i.e. facebook plugin platform but that isnt facebook itself but the games development.

Desktop java apps off the top of my head that i have installed:

RubyMine,PyCharms,Eclipse,SmartGit

.NET apps
Toad for SQL
KeePass
Paint.NET

There are hundreds if not thousands more

Even hamster can back me up on C#desktop apps considering one we worked on together is written in it. I am no way java fanatic but it has changed in recent years to be much faster and is no longer the elephant in the room with regards to speed. So it is definitely a usable for desktop development, there are many great apps written with it.

Perhaps move into the future and stop running Windows 98 SE.

 

[Hamster]

Even hamster can back me up on C#desktop apps considering one we worked on together is written in it. I am no way java fanatic but it has changed in recent years to be much faster and is no longer the elephant in the room with regards to speed. So it is definitely a usable for desktop development, there are many great apps written with it.

Perhaps move into the future and stop running Windows 98 SE.

Enterprise system.
Fat client front end rolled out to 11,000 machines - all C# baby
Web services - C#
Servers - Java and C++ (with Python on top)...and the sooner we can migrate all of it to Java the better.

If you want to go cross platform with a desktop app Java is probably the best way to go (I don't trust Mono ).

If it is Windows then C#/.Net. Some might still use C++ for desktop development (Windows) but they probably have a very good reason (none that I can think off of the top of my head right now except for being very old school harde-baard developers).

As far as web go, yes C# and Java are good options imho but there are also RoR, Python and the horrible but prevalent PHP. In fact it seems like almost any language can be used on the web these days.

 

[Swa]

Seriously? You clearly don't have much exposure to anything do you. Flash is near almost dead firstly, most clientside is javascript, just go look at any of the massive popular social networks all javascript, no flash bar the exception of maybe some of their third party games i.e. facebook plugin platform but that isnt facebook itself but the games development.

Yes flash is almost dead. Except it isn't. Overall most client side is javascript but as I already said javascript is not Java. Show me how you would write those games using javascript.

Desktop java apps off the top of my head that i have installed:

RubyMine,PyCharms,Eclipse,SmartGit

.NET apps
Toad for SQL
KeePass
Paint.NET

There are hundreds if not thousands more

Even hamster can back me up on C#desktop apps considering one we worked on together is written in it. I am no way java fanatic but it has changed in recent years to be much faster and is no longer the elephant in the room with regards to speed. So it is definitely a usable for desktop development, there are many great apps written with it.

Perhaps move into the future and stop running Windows 98 SE.

Eclipse is tied mainly to Java development already. So only 3 examples and they are all related to program development. No standalone examples there.

The majority of .NET apps are still written in C or C++ and the number of .NET apps are not that great to start off with. Sure you'll find thousands from searching but that's among millions of others. Toad for SQL server should say it all already. Again server environment. KeePass (from v.2.0) and Paint.NET is written partly in C# but also in C++.

If you want to see a good overall comparison take a look here
http://bestteneverything.com/top-ten-most-popular-programming-languages-2013/

And no this isn't cherry picking. Most sites show the same general pattern. I was surprised to see Objective C coming in only after C and Java. Considering it's the main language being pushed for iPhone though it's understandable.

 

[_kabal_]

But it's called JAVAscript

 

[semaphore]

Yes flash is almost dead. Except it isn't. Overall most client side is javascript but as I already said javascript is not Java. Show me how you would write those games using javascript.


Eclipse is tied mainly to Java development already. So only 3 examples and they are all related to program development. No standalone examples there.

The majority of .NET apps are still written in C or C++ and the number of .NET apps are not that great to start off with. Sure you'll find thousands from searching but that's among millions of others. Toad for SQL server should say it all already. Again server environment. KeePass (from v.2.0) and Paint.NET is written partly in C# but also in C++.

If you want to see a good overall comparison take a look here
http://bestteneverything.com/top-ten-most-popular-programming-languages-2013/

And no this isn't cherry picking. Most sites show the same general pattern. I was surprised to see Objective C coming in only after C and Java. Considering it's the main language being pushed for iPhone though it's understandable.

Toad for sql server is tool for sql server. Paint.NET has about 1% in c++ the rest is C#, and KeePass is 98% C# as well. And you are cherry picking as you put it. I didnt go and look up all the apps because i couldnt be arsed my point was your statement of c++ for desktop was total bull**** as is your statement regarding web development.

As for games in javascript. You are totally in the dark with latest trends

http://hellorun.helloenjoy.com/
http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/stars/
http://inear.se/beanstalk/
http://www.babylonjs.com/

Only tiny examples of the power of js these days.

 

[Swa]

Toad for sql server is tool for sql server. Paint.NET has about 1% in c++ the rest is C#, and KeePass is 98% C# as well. And you are cherry picking as you put it. I didnt go and look up all the apps because i couldnt be arsed my point was your statement of c++ for desktop was total bull**** as is your statement regarding web development.

Since Paint.NET is no longer open source I doubt you can make that statement. We don't need to look up all the apps. Most C# apps are .NET and .NET doesn't make up a huge portion of software. That is simple fact. You seem to be making the assumption that desktop automatically means windows and that windows means .NET. Neither is really the case.

As for games in javascript. You are totally in the dark with latest trends

http://hellorun.helloenjoy.com/
http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/stars/
http://inear.se/beanstalk/
http://www.babylonjs.com/

Only tiny examples of the power of js these days.

All of them use WebGL so not pure javascript. Incidentally the same can be done with Java applets, check out http://code.google.com/p/jebgl/

It's probably here to stay but not as a replacement for flash. Javascript's performance is simply too lacking for that.

 

[semaphore]

Since Paint.NET is no longer open source I doubt you can make that statement. We don't need to look up all the apps. Most C# apps are .NET and .NET doesn't make up a huge portion of software. That is simple fact. You seem to be making the assumption that desktop automatically means windows and that windows means .NET. Neither is really the case.


All of them use WebGL so not pure javascript. Incidentally the same can be done with Java applets, check out http://code.google.com/p/jebgl/

It's probably here to stay but not as a replacement for flash. Javascript's performance is simply too lacking for that.

I have the source code to Paint.NET and its primarily C#. I was not pointing out platforms i was just saying your statement is unfounded, go look at trading systems in big corporate's they use C# (i wont mention the company here). Whether its a massive place in the market or not the fact remains C++ is NOT the only avenue for desktop development as your original post would have assumed.

Mono - http://www.osnews.com/story/9780

My god dude are you seriously that stubborn? Yes its WebGL but go look at the javascript before making stupid remarks you know nothing of, all of the code is written in javascript that communicates with the WebGL api, the math is in javascript etc, that is a pretty big portion right there and there is tons more. Just like C++ is to OpenGL/DirectX, C#/C++.NET or whatever language you chose to use for XNA (well was).

You are totally going off on a tangent here claiming that you cant do games in javascript when i just proved you wrong. I never claimed you couldn't use applets. And you know nothing about web trends or standards, with the advent of HTML5 and new advancements in the ecmascript standards flash will eventually only be used for a small group of web related items until that is phased out as well. Video players (http://www.videojs.com/) are already written in html5 with javascript and no these do NOT use flash, complex animation sequences (http://www.createjs.com/#!/CreateJS). Granted these projects need a lot of work but the fact is they will get there over time and without the need of third party plugins which ALWAYS have vulnerabilities (flash) they will become the defacto standard in due course.

Anyways live in your blind sighted realm, i've given you enough education in this sector. Hopefully people reading this wont believe the bull**** you spew.

 

[Rosaudio]

bla bla bla

 

[Swa]

I have the source code to Paint.NET and its primarily C#. I was not pointing out platforms i was just saying your statement is unfounded, go look at trading systems in big corporate's they use C# (i wont mention the company here). Whether its a massive place in the market or not the fact remains C++ is NOT the only avenue for desktop development as your original post would have assumed.

I am not assuming anything of the sort so stop twisting what I said. It doesn't matter how many programs you can come up with that's written entirely in C# the fact remains that they are FAR outnumbered both in quantity and quality by those written in C++ and even C.

You don't seem to be getting the fact that when entering the job market betting on the horses that are trailing behind isn't the way to go.

My god dude are you seriously that stubborn? Yes its WebGL but go look at the javascript before making stupid remarks you know nothing of, all of the code is written in javascript that communicates with the WebGL api, the math is in javascript etc, that is a pretty big portion right there and there is tons more. Just like C++ is to OpenGL/DirectX, C#/C++.NET or whatever language you chose to use for XNA (well was).

You are totally going off on a tangent here claiming that you cant do games in javascript when i just proved you wrong. I never claimed you couldn't use applets. And you know nothing about web trends or standards, with the advent of HTML5 and new advancements in the ecmascript standards flash will eventually only be used for a small group of web related items until that is phased out as well. Video players (http://www.videojs.com/) are already written in html5 with javascript and no these do NOT use flash, complex animation sequences (http://www.createjs.com/#!/CreateJS). Granted these projects need a lot of work but the fact is they will get there over time and without the need of third party plugins which ALWAYS have vulnerabilities (flash) they will become the defacto standard in due course.

You're completely missing the point again. Of course it's going to be encoded in javascript. There's no other easy way to do it but it's still not native. Sure you can write games. I never claimed you couldn't but they won't be on the same level as what you can achieve with Flash or Java. It's simply too slow to replace it. Probably running alongside it yes.

 

[Necuno]

Well at least C# is not VB :erm:

 

[gkm]

Guys, the arguments are fairly pointless and does not help the original poster. You are not going to convince each other.

One thing I should mention, I did a quick sample on CareerJunction using a simple job title search and there were 5 C++ jobs posted for South Africa in the last week, 68 for C#, 66 for Java, 4 for Python, 2 for Ruby and 1 for JavaScript. I know it is not very representative or anything and many jobs have other titles, but should give some idea on local job trends.

 

[Necuno]

Guys, the arguments are fairly pointless and does not help the original poster. You are not going to convince each other.

One thing I should mention, I did a quick sample on CareerJunction using a simple job title search and there were 5 C++ jobs posted for South Africa in the last week, 68 for C#, 66 for Java, 4 for Python, 2 for Ruby and 1 for JavaScript. I know it is not very representative or anything and many jobs have other titles, but should give some idea on local job trends.

Perhaps all the C# coders are useless hence the many offers? The samples I took a few months ago for a junior and senior was quite shocking to say the least...

 

[kripstoe]

Perhaps all the C# coders are useless hence the many offers? The samples I took a few months ago for a junior and senior was quite shocking to say the least...

From another post you made in a different thread, I can see you're here in your capacity as a troll.

 

[Necuno]

From another post you made in a different thread, I can see you're here in your capacity as a troll.

Of course the people I interviewed as just a figment of my imagination, then again if they were real they might have had some skills and not flunk the tests.

 

[kripstoe]

Of course the people I interviewed as just a figment of my imagination, then again if they were real they might have had some skills and not flunk the tests.

And this info on your flawed candidate selection and interview process helps OP how?

 

[Necuno]

And this info on your flawed candidate selection and interview process helps OP how?

Sadly the selection whether or not AA gets send to one, one has to siff through that to find the diamond. It is however, as noted, shocking how many are not on par and couldn't write the most simplest piece of Code. Let alone look at a method and note the problems therein. Perhaps if they actually did come prepared it would have been another story, even on the surface alone that would be a key for the OP to success.

I am however curious looking at your initial reply, do tel, how does calling people names help the OP?

 

[gkm]

Perhaps all the C# coders are useless hence the many offers? The samples I took a few months ago for a junior and senior was quite shocking to say the least...

I have also been shocked by the skill level of some candidates. Not even able to write a simple for loop in some cases. And that is across many languages. So, while I agree with your second sentence, I do not really see how the first one holds true.

As you say, one has to wonder if they prepared for the interview or maybe are now looking for a job after their previous company discovered they have no clue how to do the job they are being paid for, so now looking for the next desperate sucker company.

 

[Swa]

Hmmm... it's the existing code base that counts which is still largely C++ and you won't believe how many code projects simply come out as C. OOP doesn't seem to have really caught on. I have noticed that employers (or recruiters) are largely clueless when it comes to job requirements. Might hear that C# is the new in thing and assume it to be C++. I would piss myself if one of them got told that the job would now take 10 times longer because all the code has to be ported from C.

 

[gkm]

Swa, I think you are reaching a bit. I have never seen a recruiter getting the language wrong in a job title.

OOP doesn't seem to have really caught on.

I have not seen a non-OO project in more than 10 years. So, not sure where you work...

 

[Necuno]

I have also been shocked by the skill level of some candidates. Not even able to write a simple for loop in some cases. And that is across many languages. So, while I agree with your second sentence, I do not really see how the first one holds true.

It was a play on your reply, nothing more.

As you say, one has to wonder if they prepared for the interview or maybe are now looking for a job after their previous company discovered they have no clue how to do the job they are being paid for, so now looking for the next desperate sucker company.

As simple as this, spot the errors:

public int some method(string a)
}
bool true;

true = int.parse(b);

return true;
}

Hmmm... it's the existing code base that counts which is still largely C++ and you won't believe how many code projects simply come out as C. OOP doesn't seem to have really caught on.

It get worst when there is a BA/SA being stuck in that mindset, so much that that person can't see past non-oop.