Jnr Software Developer

[Hamster]

I am not assuming anything of the sort so stop twisting what I said. It doesn't matter how many programs you can come up with that's written entirely in C# the fact remains that they are FAR outnumbered both in quantity and quality by those written in C++ and even C.

Quantity, sure, but you are going to have to qualify your quality statement. You are coming across as a bit of a C++ fanboy.

You don't seem to be getting the fact that when entering the job market betting on the horses that are trailing behind isn't the way to go.

I'm assuming that because of some silly site's stats you read you are claiming that .NET and Java are the horses trailing behind C++. If this is the case, ****ing lol, please justify that statement within the context of the South African job market or GTFO. Most job adverts I see and phone calls i get are asking for .NET/Java.

 

[Hamster]

OOP doesn't seem to have really caught on.

:wtf:

OK, so either your are trolling us or you have come across some info that we are not aware of. What do you mean OOP hasn't caught on?

 

[DominionZA]

It was a play on your reply, nothing more.
As simple as this, spot the errors:

public int some method(string a)
}
bool true;

true = int.parse(b);

return true;
}

You seriously ask that question?

It is so riddled with errors my brain fried. Even a junior should be able to pick them up.
My wife is studying dev, and while not skilled yet - she even identified some of them.

 

[Necuno]

You seriously ask that question?

It is so riddled with errors my brain fried. Even a junior should be able to pick them up.
My wife is studying dev, and while not skilled yet - she even identified some of them.

Not that exact one but similar, you don't want to be too obvious, but with one or two obvious ones. hehe.

 

[Retic]

Well OP as you can see we are all opiniated and believe in our languages. But In my experience... C#, html, css, javascrip and j query are all very sought after.. java is also quite popular. Im personally a jnr c# developer.. oh and id get fired if I couldn't identify Necuno's sample codes errors.. so no. That is far below a jnrs capability. . Or should be at least. Had a few laughs. ..

 

[Hamster]

public int some method(string a)
}
bool true;

true = int.parse(b);

return true;
}

LOL! Should rather ask "spot the line on which there is not an error"

 

[Retic]

LOL! Should rather ask "spot the line on which there is not an error"

Indeed... it should never be that easy. but on that note.. what would be a suitable assessment for jnr level? Where do you draw the line?

 

[cguy]

LOL! Should rather ask "spot the line on which there is not an error"

}

 

[Swa]

Swa, I think you are reaching a bit. I have never seen a recruiter getting the language wrong in a job title.

Perhaps, but I have seen one go so far as to ask for a programmer and not even stating the language. I don't know where you normally look for job ads but classifieds are often poorly written making one wonder about their accuracy.

I took a look on careerjunction. Don't know how you searched but I found 21 C++ postings. The C# positions seem to be geared mainly towards web development kinda confirming what I said but then again so are some of the C++ ones. Don't quite know what to make of that.

I have not seen a non-OO project in more than 10 years. So, not sure where you work...

I don't quite know what you consider to be enthusiastic about OOP. The examples I've seen are usually no more than a couple of get and set methods with data manipulation still happening in function. If something is C then by definition it also can't be OOP.

 

[Swa]

Quantity, sure, but you are going to have to qualify your quality statement. You are coming across as a bit of a C++ fanboy.

And you are coming across as quite a C# fanboy.

I'm assuming that because of some silly site's stats you read you are claiming that .NET and Java are the horses trailing behind C++. If this is the case, ****ing lol, please justify that statement within the context of the South African job market or GTFO. Most job adverts I see and phone calls i get are asking for .NET/Java.

As I said every source gives pretty much the same pattern. So no, not cherry picking. The only thing that caught me by surprise was that objective-c is still alive. It even overtakes your C# and Java but that shouldn't be a surprise with the popularity of the iPhone. You do know that .NET isn't a language?

 

[cguy]

The examples I've seen are usually no more than a couple of get and set methods with data manipulation still happening in function.

Proper OO usage is fairly common. Trying to quantify it based on your limited experience is futile. Just take it that its explicit incorporation into most modern programming languages over the last 40 years is more than just a fad.

If something is C then by definition it also can't be OOP.

No, that is not a definition, and it also happens to be false. OO can be assisted by the language, but direct support is not a requirement for writing OO code. I have written object oriented C code before.

Swa, while I think the initial responses to your post was a little overzealous (I also think some assembler exposure is worthwhile for learning purposes and although I don't think your were right ignoring C# as a desktop app language, they're close enough that I couldn't be assed to correct it), you're losing this debate.

 

[wamba]

start coding projects that you can showcase as part of your experience
visit local companies and see what kind of programs you can develop for them
say a video club software, point of sale for a local grocery shop, pharmacy software for a local pharmacy
place thsese on your cv once you are done with them

you will have gained 3 things
1. work experience
2. contactable references
3. work on actual projects

dont over charge them since you are still learning

with these three in place you can definetly get a job

 

[Hamster]

And you are coming across as quite a C# fanboy.

I try pick the right language for the job. You still need to comment on that quality statement of yours.

As I said every source gives pretty much the same pattern. So no, not cherry picking. The only thing that caught me by surprise was that objective-c is still alive. It even overtakes your C# and Java but that shouldn't be a surprise with the popularity of the iPhone. You do know that .NET isn't a language?

Whhhaaaaaat? .NET isn't a language!!! /sarcasm

You avoided the question. We are not talking about objective-C, we are talking about how .NET/Java is apparently trailing behind C++ in the job market.


EDIT: and what about your "OOP not catching on" comment? I think you had a case of your fingers typing too fast for you and said some stuff in "the heat of the moment".

 

[Necuno]

Indeed... it should never be that easy. but on that note.. what would be a suitable assessment for jnr level? Where do you draw the line?

Good question. Of course you would not expect a junior to just know everything from the get go. However you would want someone who doesn't need to be micro managed, who can be resourceful on their own, but doesn't just go all guns blazing in a direction for the sake of it. On top of that at least basic book knowledge, problem solving and programming skills.

LOL, well that was an exaggerated example after all. I suppose there is always the Fizz Buzz Test (below), but the candidate might have seen this and it would be better to make up your own business requirement and let them write the solution.

"Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print “Fizz” instead of the number and for the multiples of five print “Buzz”. For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print “FizzBuzz”."

I try pick the right language for the job.

Best tool for the job is the best tool suited for that job. Of course anyone can write in any language or use whatever framework, but did they weigh it up and selected the correct one? Quite a few that would just jump in and use ShipA to cross the ocean whereas ShipB would have been better for various reasons.

To get back to one of the earlier questions. I would say that C++ is a good thing to have behind your name if its more than a certificate. Of course it is dependent on what you would want to do at the end of the day and where your aim lies in the big picture.

 

[Retic]

Thanks Necuno. Im still not very confident. So I tend to feel like im not doing a good enough job.. and that im making mistakes.

 

[Necuno]

Thanks Necuno. Im still not very confident. So I tend to feel like im not doing a good enough job.. and that im making mistakes.

Confidence comes with time and best you can do is to learn youself not to constantly worry.

It is good to be on your toes, but it can also be counter productive if you hang it like a noose over your neck. We all make mistakes, but there are mistakes that can be avoided by using safe / good programing practices. For example think about what you are going to do, how you are going to do it and what things could arise because of that.

Don't just get-set-GO!!!!!!! but take pause and think things through as much as possible. This already is better than a deloper who just starts to code without giving it any thought.

 

[Retic]

Confidence comes with time and best you can do is to learn youself not to constantly worry.

It is good to be on your toes, but it can also be counter productive if you hang it like a noose over your neck. We all make mistakes, but there are mistakes that can be avoided by using safe / good programing practices. For example think about what you are going to do, how you are going to do it and what things could arise because of that.

Don't just get-set-GO!!!!!!! but take pause and think things through as much as possible. This already is better than a deloper who just starts to code without giving it any thought.

Thanks I will try and improve on that.. cause at times I do find myself.. fixing stupid things I could have avoided.. if I had broken the project down a bit more..

 

[Swa]

I try pick the right language for the job. You still need to comment on that quality statement of yours.

You do? And yet you punt C# as the right tool for every job.

Whhhaaaaaat? .NET isn't a language!!! /sarcasm

You avoided the question. We are not talking about objective-C, we are talking about how .NET/Java is apparently trailing behind C++ in the job market.

You are obfuscating the issue. It does not matter how it stands in the job market atm. A large portion of the code base is in C/C++. That fact you can't change with a momentary popularity of C#/Java. VB also had a phase where it was thought to be the way to go but it turned out to be transient.

Yes atm C#/Java may be the most sought in the job market. If you read my post correctly and not jump to your own conclusions and derail the thread completely you'll see that what I was saying is to use the right tool for the job. If it's web development then C#/Java is the way to go. I say that in my post if you'll just read it ffs. The current popularity of web apps may in fact be skewing the job market in favour of C#/Java. I prefer Java though.

EDIT: and what about your "OOP not catching on" comment? I think you had a case of your fingers typing too fast for you and said some stuff in "the heat of the moment".

You don't know much do you? Most people coming into programming think that OOP is the correct way to go and try to force it to fit the mould ending in something between procedural programming and a half hearted attempt at OOP. Company policy may even mandate it used. Experience however shows that it has its place but that place isn't everywhere. Most data is actually unnatural to think of in terms of OOP.

Proper OO usage is fairly common. Trying to quantify it based on your limited experience is futile. Just take it that its explicit incorporation into most modern programming languages over the last 40 years is more than just a fad.



No, that is not a definition, and it also happens to be false. OO can be assisted by the language, but direct support is not a requirement for writing OO code. I have written object oriented C code before.

Swa, while I think the initial responses to your post was a little overzealous (I also think some assembler exposure is worthwhile for learning purposes and although I don't think your were right ignoring C# as a desktop app language, they're close enough that I couldn't be assed to correct it), you're losing this debate.

It has its place sure so it would be incorporated into new languages. Can't agree with C though. It's structural but not an object-oriented language which is a requirement for using OOP. I think you may be confusing it with Objective-C.

 

[Swa]

"Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print “Fizz” instead of the number and for the multiples of five print “Buzz”. For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print “FizzBuzz”."

Interesting one. I know what the standard solution would be but am wondering what you would do.

 

[semaphore]

If it's web development then C#/Java is the way to go.

Each language as there strong points / weak. But to say that those two are the way to go is not entirely accurate. Take some of the biggest platforms out there.

Paypal - Moving there entire infrastructure over to nodejs/event paradigm execution.
Facebook - C++/PHP
Twitter - Ruby=>Scala
Amazon - Java/C++/C# from what i can tell.
Stackoverflow - C#/Asp.net mvc

Most people coming into programming think that OOP is the correct way to go and try to force it to fit the mould ending in something between procedural programming and a half hearted attempt at OOP. Company policy may even mandate it used. Experience however shows that it has its place but that place isn't everywhere. Most data is actually unnatural to think of in terms of OOP.

While i agree slightly here, OOP structures an application, it gives it modularity , extensibility. Application != Data that is why there are domain layers for this type of abstraction. Please dont try and skew the facts of application layers with the amalgamation of the layers of an application into a single domain.