Job interviews - salary disclosure

[kalevra]

Yip, agreed, don't lie. It will almost certainly come back to bite you!

The more open and honest you are, the more they will like you, the more chance you have of getting the job.

I have always been brutally honest in interviews. "Do you know this?" "No, sorry, but I can learn"

I also think it is definately their business what you currently earn. They need to know in order to ascertain if you fall into the salary bracket they are offering.

Remember not every employer is out to get you, they just need to know these things in order to hire the right person.

Agree with not lying... Definitely disagree with it being their business. They are hiring you to do a job - what they offer you should be based on your ability to do that job. Your current salary has nothing to do with your ability to do the job because it could be your employer underpaying you or that you're not a fantastic employee - but they will use the latter in determining your salary because it's to their advantage to pay less to keep costs down.

Either way it's an unfair prejudice - they should use the interview to ascertain your skills levels through testing and other verbal questioning and use this to decide - they can even phone your previous manager and ask them - I just think using your current salary really has nothing to do with a persons true worth.

 

[luxe]

Dont outright refuse to disclose. offer it like this:

Even add some icing on top with this little gem that I like to use.

"There are 2 types of companies in this world. One type with high staff turnover. Employees go to these companies for early career building and learning. These companies employ people that they can get at a cheaper rate than normal. They both benefit. The employee earns experience and gets a foot in the door. The employer gets to lower his expenditure to get the job done.
The other type of company has good staff retention. They hire people that are looking to set roots up as a permanent career. They see the value in hiring these people and paying them what they are worth in the marketplace.
Right now I am an employee looking to set roots up for my career, I am looking at long term goals and long stays adding value to any organisation that I set up with. The question is, what type of employee are you looking for for this position?

I would kick you in the ass out of my office if you pitched that, who are you to judge what company I have, and my view on how to employ and grow my staff.

 

[kalevra]

I would kick you in the ass out of my office if you pitched that, who are you to judge what company I have, and my view on how to employ and grow my staff.

It's a gamble... might work one place (gain you respect) whilst at other companies a person may feel threatened by the tactic and dislike you for it - but then why would I want to work for someone wants to hold all the cards and can't handle a little confidence/ enthusiasm. At times I was cocky with my ex boss but he liked that I wasn't just a push over and enjoyed the intellectual challenge - this is not always the case and not every work environment is congruent with this.

Is it not a fair question - are you looking for cheap staff at a high turn over or are you looking to pay people what they worth and establish a company with high staff retention where people aren't just using that company as the interim stepping stone.

 

[Grimspoon]

I would kick you in the ass out of my office if you pitched that, who are you to judge what company I have, and my view on how to employ and grow my staff.

Haha! I have to agree, you would have to have some balls to pitch that and I doubt many would appreciate it.

 

[Fuma]

Employer = master, employee = slave. Remember that.

 

[cerebus]

I gotta agree kalevra's response would get nowhere with me... if I had ANY hiring power. A request for present salary has a purpose - to establish how the employee is viewed by his employer, how they actually sit in the market, and determine a reasonable offering that wouldn't be viewed as too low or from their perspective unreasonably high. You're on a market, and trying to hide your present value only makes the purchaser suspicious.

 

[smb3]

I'm about to go for job interviews - is it common practice for employers to ask what you are currently earning? Is it ethical/ frowned upon or rude to decline and say it's private?

Also what do you think about employers basing your salary offer on what your previous employers paid you? i.e. you interview for a job where they offer R20k, you're earning R14k so they only offer R16k??

Lastly what are you thoughts on providing false information i.e. providing a salary that is higher than what you are actually earning, in order to go for higher paying jobs without being prejudiced by what your last employers were paying you?

My opinion:

a - I don't like it when employees are asking you what you are currently earning ... but even in this case one should tell the truth .... The harder question is the one after about how much you would like to earn ... because that requires justification in my opinion ... like once I wanted to go from 25k to 32k; but the prospective employer said no because there is no justification for it ... lol

You can not give your salary too, but then it will just make your employer suspicious about you in the end.

b - You should be frank about what you want to earn and be firm on it ... normally a good value is ~25% extra than what you currently earning ... or if you can prove an higher amount then use that proof.

c - False information in all cases will bite you in the end ... and could be criminal in some cases ... plus Allah will punish you (or whatever your faith is)

But the main point is ... don't feel that it's wrong to ask for a high salary because you are doing nothing wrong here ... yes it seems ambitious or greedy but you will never be happy until you get what you want ... plus it's not wrong for a company to underpay you (thats a cost saving technique, and equally unethical) and somehow its wrong for an employee to ask for more money? ... so it's well within your rights to ask for what you want ... if you want to guarantee yourself a job however, then you have to bargain

 

[Voicy]

One thing to remember (and I am a victim of this myself) is that when you state your current salary, provide background on it. E.g:

1) You accepted it because you needed experience above remuneration at that stage of your career.
2) Your last raise was based on X qualifications, but you've gained Y since then without any further increases.

 

[icyrus]

I gotta agree kalevra's response would get nowhere with me... if I had ANY hiring power. A request for present salary has a purpose - to establish how the employee is viewed by his employer, how they actually sit in the market, and determine a reasonable offering that wouldn't be viewed as too low or from their perspective unreasonably high.

A company requesting current renumeration from an interviewee has a value for the company but absolutely no value for the interviewee. Personally I wouldn't answer and would have less respect for the company asking such questions.

You're on a market, and trying to hide your present value only makes the purchaser suspicious.

Asking for current/previous renumeration info makes me suspicious that the people at the company are all penny-pinching bastards.

 

[luxe]

Its a 2 way street.

If it were your company, I can bloody well be sure you would ask for a payslip. There is no way you want to overpay, but obviously, if you WANT THE PERSON, you also don't want to UNDEROFFER.

It serves two purposes, if they want you, they can be realistic and offer you 15 - 25% more than you currently earn, which in anyone's book, is fair. (Unless of course you just cured cancer, can down 1384 beers without burping, lick your elbow AND just completed your 12th PHD, then you get 30%).

 

[Ancalagon]

Why not just ask you what you want instead of what you currently earn?

He wants X, we think he is worth X -2, sorry not hiring him. Or, he wants X and we think he is worth X + 10, yes please! Either way, its the candidates responsibility to make sure you dont under offer, and he runs the risk of asking for too much, and having his prospective employees think he is lying about his skill level. Eg, if someone intermediate goes in for an intermediate position but asking for a senior salary. Not likely to get hired even if he is a good intermediate.

 

[Billy]

Dont outright refuse to disclose. offer it like this:

Interviewer:
"So how much were you on at your last company"?
You:
I feel that my last company is not paying me what I am worth. I am looking for a company that can make the best use of my skills, and is willing to give me what I am worth. I am hoping that your company is the one to do that.

You refuse to disclose, but also show them your confidence by both complimenting them and challenging them at the same time.

Even add some icing on top with this little gem that I like to use.

"There are 2 types of companies in this world. One type with high staff turnover. Employees go to these companies for early career building and learning. These companies employ people that they can get at a cheaper rate than normal. They both benefit. The employee earns experience and gets a foot in the door. The employer gets to lower his expenditure to get the job done.
The other type of company has good staff retention. They hire people that are looking to set roots up as a permanent career. They see the value in hiring these people and paying them what they are worth in the marketplace.
Right now I am an employee looking to set roots up for my career, I am looking at long term goals and long stays adding value to any organisation that I set up with. The question is, what type of employee are you looking for for this position?

Always remember, in an interview where you have skills to trade on, you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. Don't be too cocky about it, but dont be shy to show them that you are hungry. The result of this approach is that you either get offered what you want, or very close to, or you dont get the job. Which means that they would have offered you much lower than you wanted, and they know that you would not have accepted it anyway.

Excellent advice.

 

[icyrus]

Its a 2 way street.

If it were your company, I can bloody well be sure you would ask for a payslip. There is no way you want to overpay, but obviously, if you WANT THE PERSON, you also don't want to UNDEROFFER.

I don't see how it is possible to overpay. A company is hiring to get certain skills and they know what those skills are worth to them. A company that feels they got a good deal by giving an employee less than what they believe the position is worth because the employee will accept it is pathetic.

 

[Gnome]

I'd give my pay.

Depends on the industry if the salary you provide will determine your new salary IMHO. For example, in IT a company that uses the "25%" rule will find it hard to get employees unless an employee that already had a good salary stumbles by is willing to work there.

Another thing is, some skills are incredibly hard to replace (again IT), most companies will increase your salary by 25% just so that they don't need to try find someone to replace you. If you fall into that category your departure can pose a significant risk to a company so another company would have to make a sizeable increase to outdo your own company's new found willingness to increase your salary.

 

[Grimspoon]

I don't see how it is possible to overpay. A company is hiring to get certain skills and they know what those skills are worth to them. A company that feels they got a good deal by giving an employee less than what they believe the position is worth because the employee will accept it is pathetic.

O, I know a company like that only too well

It happens, trust me.

 

[BobsLawnService]

I gotta agree kalevra's response would get nowhere with me... if I had ANY hiring power. A request for present salary has a purpose - to establish how the employee is viewed by his employer, how they actually sit in the market, and determine a reasonable offering that wouldn't be viewed as too low or from their perspective unreasonably high. You're on a market, and trying to hide your present value only makes the purchaser suspicious.

This means that if my current employer isn't paying me a market related salary you think you can pay me in the same bracket despite the skills I possess. That is not right. You should offer a prospective client what s/he is actually worth, not what their last employee thought they were worth or could afford to pay them.

 

[Stefanmuller]

I don't see how it is possible to overpay. A company is hiring to get certain skills and they know what those skills are worth to them. A company that feels they got a good deal by giving an employee less than what they believe the position is worth because the employee will accept it is pathetic.

Although companies rarely pay what they advertise for, especially if you earned a lot less before. For example, a company offering 20K per month, would most likely offer you 16K or 17K if you used to earn 14K. Which I find strange, because if you end up with the job, it means that they either could not get anyone with the full required experience, or that they could not afford them, or that they feel it is more of a bargain taking you for the job for less, as you would end up falling for it. I agree that this does not seem fair. Either you should get the job for the advertised price, or not get it at all. I have also noticed that, (mostly in the smaller companies with small to medium salaries) companies raise their advertised salary in order to attract as many as possible "good" CV's, even though they are not planning to pay the full salary or hire the best one. For instance, they will advertise for 20K, but anyone earning 19K they will probably not invite for an interview as they will not be able to afford them.

 

[Tweak]

1) Yes it is common practice, and while you are allowed to decline, it is somewhat frowned upon to do so.
2) That is also par for the course.
4) If they call your previous employer for confirmation, this will come back to bite you.

Our HR department has never disclosed private information like this. I don't know about other companies

 

[Drunkard #1]

I won't provide bank statements - I think that's crossing the privacy line. I print my own salary slips and it's a family company so I can put anything I want on there if I wanted to. Therefore can't be proven to be wrong or false - following this logic it's an alright instance?

I understand your point but a lie is still a lie - therefore if one lie is ok under certain conditions then a different lie under similar conditions could also be ok...

I don't think we're going to agree on this so we'll have to agree to disagree - thanks for your point though it does shed light on the subject!

If you work for family, then they can't really compare their offer to your current salary unless they're willing to cut you into their will. If you tell them what you earn, they can then offer what you're worth, or you've got every right to feel insulted when they offer you something based on your current salary.

As for lying in interviews, most of the interviewers I've met have been HR drones who are clueless about the skills required for the position. They're normally women with "psychology degrees" who think that it's more important for a sysadmin or building site foreman to meet their vague "personalty" requirements, than to have the skills and attitude required to perform well in job offered. To put it bluntly, it's not an interview, it's a date. You wouldn't tell "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" on a date, would you? So lie all you want, because otherwise some smooth-talking charmer with less than half your skills and no ethics will get offered the job before you.

 

[cerebus]

This means that if my current employer isn't paying me a market related salary you think you can pay me in the same bracket despite the skills I possess. That is not right. You should offer a prospective client what s/he is actually worth, not what their last employee thought they were worth or could afford to pay them.

Just because you disclose your present salary doesn't mean you can't also tell them plainly what you want from them. It could be that the whole reason you are looking for work is because you are being criminally underpaid relative to the market (as I am at the moment), and you also do have the right to make that clear at the interview.