John Q Sticking his neck out!!

Jozi101 said:
http://www.news24.com/News24/Columnists/Jon_Qwelane/0,,2-1630-1633_2155910,00.html

Very true indeed.

Quote

"I guess he was giving voice to the many Africans who, like me, would have preferred Nuremberg-type trials at the end of apartheid, and not the Truth and Reconcialiation Commission, which has been grossly abused by the beneficiaries and protagonists of apartheid"
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Yes, and giving justification to the people not wanting to get rid of apartheid because of the age old belief that it will become a bloodbath
 
rwenzori said:
Maybe we should just go and have our civil war and get it over with.
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Human nature forces us to seek revenge, however impractical this is. Personally, i agree with John that the TRC was a farce, but i also believe that we can't go back now as i've got too much to lose if we do.

Let's stop foolling ourselves though with this whole reconciliation cr@p.
 
Jozi101 said:
Human nature forces us to seek revenge, however impractical this is. Personally, i agree with John that the TRC was a farce, but i also believe that we can't go back now as i've got too much to lose if we do.

Let's stop foolling ourselves though with this whole reconciliation cr@p.
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I don't think it was a farce. It is just that the spirit of full disclosure of events during the apartheid era was not achieved.

In some of the cases you could get a feeling that the foot-soldiers were taking the fall for the guys that really orchestrated the events.
 
I guess he was giving voice to the many Africans who, like me, would have preferred Nuremberg-type trials at the end of apartheid, and not the Truth and Reconcialiation Commission, which has been grossly abused by the beneficiaries and protagonists of apartheid.
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Undoubtedly it would have been well deserved but the thing about Nuremberg-type trials is that, at least in South Africa, they would have been preceded by WWII type war. It was a trade off for a peaceful resolution.

As to McBride and the media: well, on the one hand we have the evil, anti-transformation media (largely black owned, haha) and on the other we have special, slap on-the-wrist justice (roflmao ) for struggle heroes...
 
Nick333 said:
Undoubtedly it would have been well deserved but the thing about Nuremberg-type trials is that, at least in South Africa, they would have been preceded by WWII type war. It was a trade off for a peaceful resolution.

As to McBride and the media: well, on the one hand we have the evil, anti-transformation media (largely black owned, haha) and on the other we have special, slap on-the-wrist justice (roflmao ) for struggle heroes...
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Sorry Nick, but you do know that the media in SA is largely white owned?
 
Jozi101 said:
Let's stop foolling ourselves though with this whole reconciliation cr@p.
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One is tempted to go along with this and show the finger to you previously disadvantaged lot. But do we have a future together in this country? Do we want one? I'd like to try, but it ain't going to work unless we can try to get along with each other.
 
rwenzori said:
One is tempted to go along with this and show the finger to you previously disadvantaged lot.
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No need to. PW Botha and company have been doing so for years now. He gave the TRC, democracy and our so called reconcilliation the middle finger long ago until he died peacefully at his illgotten farm.
 
sox63 said:
Sorry Nick, but you do know that the media in SA is largely white owned?
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Well, ok I can't find anything to prove it either way. It is safe to say that the South African media is largely run by blacks though.
 
Jozi101 said:
No need to. PW Botha and company have been doing so for years now. He gave the TRC, democracy and our so called reconcilliation the middle finger long ago until he died peacefully at his illgotten farm.
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So there is no point trying to get along on some basis then?
 
rwenzori said:
So there is no point trying to get along on some basis then?
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No, that's not what i'm saying. What i would like though is not to be told to forget about apartheid and move on. That is the most insensitive thing you can say to us as black people today (I know they don't give a rat's @rse how we feel). It's been uttered in these forums on a few ocassions. If you're honest about this (Not you speciffically) then you will atleast try to understand that.
 
rwenzori said:
Maybe we should just go and have our civil war and get it over with.
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Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
War was the last thing we wanted.
We being the whites and blacks.
It actually worked in a way with Mandela running things. The people really involved wanted peace. These that don't know war are easy to become clever.
Take a weekend off and go to Mozambique, Angola, Zim, Zaire and all the rest. Give Darfur a change and come back and tell me you want a war.
A war now will put as back to a time before '94. The same as a war then would have put as back in the seventies.
All wars are ended with negotiations. We managed to skip the destruction.
We are in it together. At least trying to make it work we have achieved something already. Go and do it.
As for John Q. We will read your next piece on Sunday. Invite Mc Bride for a braai. Enjoy your week.
 
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Jozi101 said:
No, that's not what i'm saying. What i would like though is not to be told to forget about apartheid and move on. That is the most insensitive thing you can say to us as black people today (I know they don't give a rat's @rse how we feel). It's been uttered in these forums on a few ocassions. If you're honest about this (Not you speciffically) then you will atleast try to understand that.
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Thanks for the response. Fair enough. But what more do you want from us whiteys before we can co-operate? What do you expect of us? Money? Apologies? Sackcloth-and-ashes?

You see, when the ANC were the big liberation movement, they held the moral high ground ( legislated discrimination, exploitation, etc etc ). Then they came to power and showed that actually they were just after the power and the money and the goodies and the gravy, and booger everyone else.

On another tack, what you might also understand is that us whiteys are sick and tired of current corruption and incompetence being blamed on apartheid or on the white population.
 
Getafix said:
Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
War was the last thing we wanted.
We being the whites and blacks.
It actually worked in a way with Mandela running things. The people really involved wanted peace. These that don't know war are easy to become clever.
Take a weekend off and go to Mozambique, Angola, Zim, Zaire and all the rest. Give Darfur a change and come back and tell me you want a war.
A war now will put as back to a time before '94. The same as a war then would have put as back in the seventies.
All wars are ended with negotiations. We managed to skip the destruction.
We are in it together. At least trying to make it work we have achieved something already. Go nad do it.
As for John Q. We will read your next piece on Sunday. Invite Mc Bride for a braai. Enjoy your week.
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Agreed. I don't want war either like i've said in my previous post. I won't lie to you though, my soul yearns for revenge:D, but i do realise that this is impractical, and so i say let's make this place work together. Those illiterate masses of unemployed/unemployable black people will come back to bite us in the @rse. They are the ones that were really screwed by apartheid. I feel like i'm going off topic here!
 
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Getafix said:
Careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
War was the last thing we wanted.
We being the whites and blacks.
It actually worked in a way with Mandela running things. The people really involved wanted peace. These that don't know war are easy to become clever.
Take a weekend off and go to Mozambique, Angola, Zim, Zaire and all the rest. Give Darfur a change and come back and tell me you want a war.
A war now will put as back to a time before '94. The same as a war then would have put as back in the seventies.
All wars are ended with negotiations.
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I'm not stupid you know. I am well aware of the horrors of war. Not all wars end in negotiation - you might recall the phrase "unconditional surrender".
 
rwenzori said:
I'm not stupid you know. I am well aware of the horrors of war. Not all wars end in negotiation - you might recall the phrase "unconditional surrender".
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I am glad there is one person who think you are not stupid. Can't recall that you were called that.

"unconditional surrender" to prove a point. I suppose accepting it is not negotiating in your non stupid view.
 
Getafix said:
I am glad there is one person who think you are not stupid. Can't recall that you were called that.

"unconditional surrender" to prove a point. I suppose accepting it is not negotiating in your non stupid view.
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If you're going to flame me at least develop some style!
:p
 
JBFRobisher said:
"Let's negotiate." said Adolf to the company of T-34s approaching the fuhrerbunker!
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The war did not end with the death of Hitler.

The unconditional surrender was accepted by the Allies leaders from Genl. Jodl under instruction from Pres. Karl Donitz on the 8 May 1945 at Reims.

The day is known as VE day ;)
 
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