Laminated Glass - Complex Installation Concerns

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Ancalagon

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Hey everyone,

So my flat is somewhat noisy and I'd like to have laminated windows installed. I know that double glazing would be better, but it isn't an option for me because complex rules requires me to keep the same window frames - the appearance has to be identical.

Anyway, I'm just a little concerned about complex management on this issue. I'm worried I'll have this stuff installed and then be told to remove it.

What I have done so far is, before engaging with any suppliers, I contacted the management agent, explained what I wanted to do and why, and asked her if it would be okay. I also asked her for the complex's preferred supplier - they are sticky about this sort of thing. She had a chat with the other trustees and said that it would be okay as long as I used the original window frames and you could not really tell a difference. She gave me the name and number of the preferred supplier.

I had originally said to her that I would like to start this process mid August, but I decided to get a quote in July so that I know what I am in for (and if it is even possible to use the original frames). I would still have the installation done mid August.

So I let her know what I am doing and said she is welcome to be here when they come to quote in case she has any questions for them. Or, she can contact them herself, I really don't mind. But that is the last I have heard of her.

The supplier said that the original frames would be used and it would like identical. I have passed all of this information on to her including the proposed date of installation, but she still hasn't responded. This has been via email.

I'm just getting a bit nervous that this could go sour. Do I need formal approval before doing anything like this? Is there anything I should do?
 
how effective would the laminate glass be? Cost? I think you will have better success using noise reduction curtains (if such a thing exists) or something like that
 
I can't assist with your complex management problems but I do recommend that you specify "low e" [emissivity] glass for the glazing.

Low e is a coating that provides most of the insulation benefits of double glazing, but requires only single glazing.

See http://www.sahomeowner.co.za/glazed-over/
 
rodga said:
wont provide any sound benefits though
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Also, if it the glass currently isn't "low e" then putting in "low e" would fall foul of the Complex rules due to the change in tint on the glass.
 
rodga said:
how effective would the laminate glass be? Cost? I think you will have better success using noise reduction curtains (if such a thing exists) or something like that
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They are a lot more effective than traditional glass windows.

Traditional glass windows have a sound transmission class of 27. This means that they reduce most sound by 27 decibels. It does depend on the frequency of the sound though - they do better with higher frequency sound.

8.38mm laminated glass, like I am installing, has an STC of 35, so it is a lot better. Because of the way the decibel scale works, some sounds could be reduced in volume by 60%. Note that again it does depend on the sound frequency and it is more difficult to attenuate (reduce the volume of) low frequency sounds.

I do plan to replace my curtains too. That is the next step. The thing is, to get maximum noise reduction, I will have to do both. Doing one but not the other seems pointless. Rather do as much as you can to reduce the noise. Also not sure if I can get those super thick sound reduction curtains - am worried that they will make my flat too warm because they would also be very good at keeping heat in.

ToxicBunny said:
Also, if it the glass currently isn't "low e" then putting in "low e" would fall foul of the Complex rules due to the change in tint on the glass.
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yeah anything tinted like that is not an option for me.
 
If the installer says you can use the original window frames I'd go ahead, not much can go wrong and if the new glass looks slightly different from the old screw them, being that anal is pointless, just apologise and blame the glass fitter.

But if you are using the existing frames I honestly can see any issue, that's really what they are worried about, slight optic change with the glasses refractive index isn't going to make much difference.
 
airborne said:
If the installer says you can use the original window frames I'd go ahead, not much can go wrong and if the new glass looks slightly different from the old screw them, being that anal is pointless, just apologise and blame the glass fitter.

But if you are using the existing frames I honestly can see any issue, that's really what they are worried about, slight optic change with the glasses refractive index isn't going to make much difference.
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I have a funny feeling that they want to wait for after the installation to see if I am "in compliance". Any if there is any visible difference, they will ask me to get the original glass back. So as long as the contractor/supplier is true to his word, I should not have an issue.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Also, if it the glass currently isn't "low e" then putting in "low e" would fall foul of the Complex rules due to the change in tint on the glass.
Click to expand...

Low e glass is totally transparent. I have mix and the only way of identifying the low e panels is by using a multi-meter.
 
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rrh said:
Low e glass is totally transparent. I have mix and the only way of identifying the low e panels is by using a multi-meter.
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The supplier mentioned low-e glass but mentioned it is hideously expensive. He basically said it was not worth it. He mentioned two "standard" options - 6.38mm laminate and 8.38mm laminate.

rodga said:
is it the laminate or low e part that contributes to the reduction?
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The laminate part and the extra thickness of the glass both contribute to noise reduction. Low-e has a special anti UV coating I believe. Laminated glass does also reduce UV rays but not to the same extent I believe.
 
I hate laminated glass. When you don't install it 100% perfect you always get water to de-laminate the sheets and that really looks ugly.
 
You'd get more success just from sealing the window openings with neoprene rubber strips.
 
The laminate glass looks identical. Doubt there would be an issue with the complex. Also in addition to the noise reduction their heat insulation is massively better too. I am also considering doing it in my ST unit but more for heat than noise right now.
 
rodga said:
how effective would the laminate glass be? Cost? I think you will have better success using noise reduction curtains (if such a thing exists) or something like that
Click to expand...

It does. It's called Black-out curtains. I have them in my living room. They are lined with a thick material and blocks out light and muffles sound.

I also have double glazed windows though, which were installed in the complex when it was built (last year) so I can't really say if it's blocking out a lot or not as it's very quiet anyway :p
 
Method said:
It does. It's called Black-out curtains. I have them in my living room. They are lined with a thick material and blocks out light and muffles sound.

I also have double glazed windows though, which were installed in the complex when it was built (last year) so I can't really say if it's blocking out a lot or not as it's very quiet anyway :p
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I'll get there! First thicker windows and then new curtains. Then I should have a much quieter flat.
 
@OP I'm in the industry. If you have aluminium windows, there is now a new replacement bead that allows normal casement windows to take a double glazed IG unit. We have performed this change for several clients here who had existing aluminium windows but wanted to add sound reduction. The double glazed units will be identical when viewed against the other units so you will not fall foul of body corporate rules.

Changing the glass to 6.38 or 8.38 laminated will not offer enough sound reduction to justify the expense. Going thicker means nothing as the sound reduction is in the vinyl middle layer. If going this route, Glass South Africa offers a laminate with thicker vinyl layer for improved sound reduction.

Low E is for UV reduction and has zero effect re sound reduction, unless in laminated form and then only minor. I'd be more than willing to supply you with all the info.
 
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