Language rights ruling reserved

[daveza]

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/f53d8b293cac4fc180bcaad1d1bd67f5/

Pretoria - The North Gauteng High Court on Monday reserved judgment on an application by a Brits attorney who wants to force the government to treat all local languages equally.

During legal argument, Judge Ben du Plessis remarked that the government ought to have been able to promulgate language policy legislation in the past 14 years, but failed to do so.

He said the Pan South African Language Board had been tasked to monitor what the government did, but that was "putting the board before the horse".

"It doesn't help to put the policeman in place if government hasn't said what it's going to do or has already done," the judge said.

"It seems to me that nothing much has been done."

Parliament policy

Du Plessis said the Constitution required a co-ordinated plan regulating the use of all 11 official languages.

"At least Parliament has a language policy in use. It seems the national government does not have such a policy in place."

The government should work out a way to accommodate all 11 languages, the judge said.

I haven't been following this case so can't comment too much.

But I do have a question -

Do we really need 11 official languages ? Does any other country have multiple official languages ?

 

[Morgoth]

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/f53d8b293cac4fc180bcaad1d1bd67f5/



I haven't been following this case so can't comment too much.

But I do have a question -

Do we really need 11 official languages ? Does any other country have multiple official languages ?

Belgium and Switzerland has quite a few, but let be honest, Zulu, Xhosa, Swaizi and Ndebele is all a dialect of one another...
the same with sotho/north sotho/ Tswane etc.... you might as well sit with 4 languages, English Afrikaans, an east and a west one, it makes it so much easier...

 

[Gawain]

....you might as well sit with 4 languages, English Afrikaans, an east and a west one, it makes it so much easier...

That could work ... unless the different dialects excluded amongst the east and west one's complain ... therefore we will be stuck with all of them IMO

 

[daveza]

As I see it , it's either 1 or all 11.

What's the argument against just English - because after Chinese it's the most spoken language internationally.

 

[Gawain]

As I see it , it's either 1 or all 11.

What's the argument against just English - because after Chinese it's the most spoken language internationally.

english would be the easiest to implement but it would never fly imagine afrikaaners / xhosas / zulu's never mind the "capies" freaking out ... anyway afrikaans has the coolest swearwords ... ever

 

[murraybiscuit]

in short - it's not efficient from and admin, implementation and international competitiveness point of view.
rediscovering tribal identity may have been an important part of the nation coming to terms with it's past, but it's not where the future lies.

ancient china, prussia, russia, the usa... there's countless examples of nations achieving greater strength through the homogeneity of a common dominant language, government and identity.
my order of preference for schools would be: english, a bantu language and international third language like mandarin or spanish.
that would cut down on the babel-tongued inefficiencies and would prepare kids for a global future.

i was having a chat with a friend of mine from india who was telling me about their educational system (they also have countless official languages)
graduates over there who can't speak english simply can't get the same jobs that english speaking applicants can.
they aren't any less intelligent, but unfortunately the demand isn't so high for mba grads who got their qualification in gujarat...

the world is moving on. the longer your identity stays parochial, the harder it will be to catch up in the long term.

 

[WilD_CaT]

It should be up to the person and not the government. If people want to learn in Zulu, then they must build a zulu school and teach in zulu (Without tax payer money) Then if they can't get a job, its their fault as they chose to be educated in zulu. If there is a demand for zulu speakers then that demand will be fulfilled.

If there is no demand then tough.

You can't do whatever you want to do, then demand people pay for it whether they value it or not.

 

[daveza]

in short - it's not efficient from and admin, implementation and international competitiveness point of view.
rediscovering tribal identity may have been an important part of the nation coming to terms with it's past, but it's not where the future lies.

ancient china, prussia, russia, the usa... there's countless examples of nations achieving greater strength through the homogeneity of a common dominant language, government and identity.
my order of preference for schools would be: english, a bantu language and international third language like mandarin or spanish.
that would cut down on the babel-tongued inefficiencies and would prepare kids for a global future.

i was having a chat with a friend of mine from india who was telling me about their educational system (they also have countless official languages)
graduates over there who can't speak english simply can't get the same jobs that english speaking applicants can.
they aren't any less intelligent, but unfortunately the demand isn't so high for mba grads who got their qualification in gujarat...

the world is moving on. the longer your identity stays parochial, the harder it will be to catch up in the long term.

There's a major flaw with this.

It's too sensible.

 

[ponder]

We should just use English.

 

[Ockie]

As a Afrikaans guy, I would just like to say that there is no excuse for not being Bi-Lingual. I got my education in a small town where Afrikaans was the only spoken language. BUT, English was a compulsary subject untill you finished matric and if you failed it, you failed your entire year!! Yes, I do love my mother tongue, but am gratefull that my Afrikaans school put a high importance on English. I would very much like to see my mother tongue remain one of the official languages, as I do think that it played a very important part in our history, good and bad. I however also do realize that English is the way forward and English as a second language should be a goal for everyone.

 

[ponder]

I would very much like to see my mother tongue remain one of the official languages, as I do think that it played a very important part in our history, good and bad.

Why? If everyone has this attitude then we are back to 11 or whatever languages again. Why is it that people let a language define them? Why not simply just use language as a tool. If we all said "Hey, let's all use English as the official language and we carry on using our other languages in our social environment etc" how would that harm or take away anything from anyone? It would be more practical & cheaper if we all just used English, there are other countries doing this where English is not even the language of the majority. As it is we use mostly English in business and dealing with the government.

 

[Ockie]

Why? If everyone has this attitude then we are back to 11 or whatever languages again.

Perhaps because I am sentimental...I dont know. But Afrikaans is my mother tongue, I am proud of it and love my language, even if I hardly speak for most of the day seeing that most people @ work is English. I understand what you are saying, and yes, it makes sense....but that is how I feel, and I am sure many others would feel the same.

Just out of curiousity...I am guessing you are English Ponder?

 

[ponder]

Just out of curiousity...I am guessing you are English Ponder?

Nope, Afrikaans but I have no attachment to the language. I see language as a communications tool and English seems to be the best tool for the job.

 

[Ockie]

Nope, Afrikaans but I have no attachment to the language. I see language as a communications tool and English seems to be the best tool for the job.

RUGSTEKER! Geen plek vir jou in die Volkstaat nie! lol hehe.

I am not disagreeing with you regarding English being the best tool for the job. But I dont want my language to dissapear either. I hate it when French or Germans cant speak English. I can do it, why cant you? No excuse for not being able to speak English.

 

[ponder]

If there is a hell it will most likely be die Volkstaat.

Just because a language is not an official language does not mean it will die out. Making a language official does not guarantee it's future existence either, it's existence depends on the people that speak it and that you cannot promulgate in law.

As for the French, well they have issues and it relates to a shared history with a little island across the see

 

[Tpex]

no country has 11 official languages, I think 4 was the max, its should be English, Afrikaans Zulu and Xhosa, and even that pushing it, the reason we have 11 is becuase of the saffer mentality of accepting everybody, even those some groups are quite insignificant

 

[Morgoth]

well not having mother tongue education is kinda stupid, all research shows that it gives the best result, but having 11 languages is ridiculous, how many people in SA can speak all off them? at most 4-5.....

 

[Balstrome]

If we had walls all around the country and no one was allowed out and no one allowed in, then maybe doing the 11 languages things would be a method to cut the boredom, but seeing that we don't we should not bother with it, because there is more interesting stuff to learn about. Learn English and take part in the world. The first one's who do this will get a superior advantage over those that do not. Ready, Steady, Go.

 

[Morgoth]

If we had walls all around the country and no one was allowed out and no one allowed in, then maybe doing the 11 languages things would be a method to cut the boredom, but seeing that we don't we should not bother with it, because there is more interesting stuff to learn about. Learn English and take part in the world. The first one's who do this will get a superior advantage over those that do not. Ready, Steady, Go.

well, other languages usually have to keep up with English, but overall the work related talking language in SA in most places imho is still done in Afrikaans,

 

[ponder]

...but overall the work related talking language in SA in most places imho is still done in Afrikaans,

Wtf do you work, a dorpie somewhere between put sonder water en piel sonder kop?

Sorry, but I think your statement is bs.