Law career advice?

[IanM]

Hi everyone

So my fiancè is finishing her law articles in the next couple of months and she's in a bit of a weird situation. She's doing her articles at Legal Aid, therefore she mainly gained experience in criminal law and court appearances. The problem with this is that after articles, the pursuit of a career in criminal law is quite limited, with very few opportunities out there.

She's completed her LLB, passed all her admissions exams first time around and currently studying towards her conveyance exams. Getting admitted as an attorney in October.

We have considered a few options:

1. She stays on at Legal Aid. This is a big maybe since a post-article position needs to open up around the time she finishes for her to be eligible.
2. She completes her conveyancing exams, start her own firm and can basically make a living doing that. Maybe a bit of criminal law as well.
3. She starts her own firm directly after her articles, and only do criminal law. Maybe bring in a civil partner and can learn from them, vice versa.
4. Go work for a firm specialising in criminal law; which we can't find many on the internet.

I'm probably a bit biased, but she is very committed to work her hardest to make a success of her career. Very organised and disciplined in her work. Those criminals are very lucky to have her representing them!

Anyway; any advice would be appreciated. I think we maybe just need some fresh perspective on it.

Thanks!

 

[lexor]

Live is tough out there for an "inexperienced" lawyer trying to open up a practice.

I would try to stay with L/Aid ( CA) and while working there she has enough time to consider future career moves.
Speak to the Law Society to get the contact details of criminal firms in the Western Cape.
She can consider joining the NPA.

 

[IanM]

Live is tough out there for an "inexperienced" lawyer trying to open up a practice.

I would try to stay with L/Aid ( CA) and while working there she has enough time to consider future career moves.
Speak to the Law Society to get the contact details of criminal firms in the Western Cape.
She can consider joining the NPA.

I totally agree with you on the new firm issue. Starting her own practice will only reap rewards after a while. And like any other career is SA, you need to specialise before the big bucks start to roll in.

Thanks for the tip on the Law society; I haven't thought of that. Will email them and inquire about criminal firms in WC.

At least there's a couple of Legal Aid centres in WC and they also have something called the "high flyer" list which gives you preference for any internal positions. We're currently trying to get her on that list so that she has a couple of more opportunities. But like any institution connected to government its a hassle!

 

[froot]

She can consider joining the NPA.

You really need good rerasons to want to join the NPA rather than sticking to private practice. In the NPA you make a fair salary, but nothing compared to private practice.

 

[IanM]

There has to be a huge market for criminal private practices out there. I mean, if you don't qualify for legal aid, and can't represent yourself, then you have to get private representation.

 

[HavocXphere]

She starts her own firm directly after her articles,

Just don't pick this option...the chances of someone being ready for that straight after articles is slim/none.

 

[IanM]

Just don't pick this option...the chances of someone being ready for that straight after articles is slim/none.

Ok cool thanks. Im guessing experience is key here.

I've found a couple of law firms in the cape region today that she can look at ("Lidell Weeber" and "Venter Van Eeden" seem to be the 2 most prominent ones on the web).

Another option is to get into a established firm and try to work her way up to a partner. Honestly with her drive and the amount of hours she currently puts in on a junior level already, she'll be able to get there.

 

[^^vampire^^]

Ok cool thanks. Im guessing experience is key here.

I've found a couple of law firms in the cape region today that she can look at ("Lidell Weeber" and "Venter Van Eeden" seem to be the 2 most prominent ones on the web).

Another option is to get into a established firm and try to work her way up to a partner. Honestly with her drive and the amount of hours she currently puts in on a junior level already, she'll be able to get there.

Think you're missing one important factor here and that is that these law firms don't want to make people partner. It cuts into their profits and the other partners take home at the end of the day. Also there is an abundance of law lackeys that are trying to prove themselves and will do whatever needs to be done to get into articles, never mind to secure a job.

The guys on top know this and will work those that have completed their articles to death for 5 or so years if the candidates allow them for miniscule salaries until the candidate learns to grow a pair and leaves. Law firms are good to gain valid experience to learn the daily ins and outs of what you need to be doing but you can't stay there forever.

A friend of mine has BCom LLB and 2 masters degrees and earns half of what I do. He's specialising in tax now which seems to be a good area to go into. He finally learned to man up and is now getting places finally and prospects are looking good. You have to be a ruthless c*nt to be a lawyer in most instances and be willing to screw over colleagues to get on top of your game. You need to remember that at the end of the day people running these top law firms are rich cowboys that don't see the playing field as you and I. They don't need to operate fairly.

A friends father is a pretty high profile criminal lawyer/attorney. He has tons of cash and told me the only way to make good money in criminal law is to defend the criminals. Fighting to put criminals in jail is a low paying and thankless job.

 

[IanM]

Think you're missing one important factor here and that is that these law firms don't want to make people partner. It cuts into their profits and the other partners take home at the end of the day. Also there is an abundance of law lackeys that are trying to prove themselves and will do whatever needs to be done to get into articles, never mind to secure a job.

The guys on top know this and will work those that have completed their articles to death for 5 or so years if the candidates allow them for miniscule salaries until the candidate learns to grow a pair and leaves. Law firms are good to gain valid experience to learn the daily ins and outs of what you need to be doing but you can't stay there forever.

A friend of mine has BCom LLB and 2 masters degrees and earns half of what I do. He's specialising in tax now which seems to be a good area to go into. He finally learned to man up and is now getting places finally and prospects are looking good. You have to be a ruthless c*nt to be a lawyer in most instances and be willing to screw over colleagues to get on top of your game. You need to remember that at the end of the day people running these top law firms are rich cowboys that don't see the playing field as you and I. They don't need to operate fairly.

A friends father is a pretty high profile criminal lawyer/attorney. He has tons of cash and told me the only way to make good money in criminal law is to defend the criminals. Fighting to put criminals in jail is a low paying and thankless job.

Thanks for the insight. I have also heard similar stories of how juniors gets mistreated by the partners and never have the guts to do anything about it. One of my mates' brother was lucky enough to get offered partner after just being at the firm for 3 years. But he is a real douche these days. Don't want that to happen to my fiancé.

It's just weird to me how many of her colleagues of the past two years opened their own firm straight after articles. Their experience is so limited. It's too soon to evaluate how the firms do and if they make money from it, but time will tell.

Totally agree with you on the part where you say to represent the criminals. The prosecuter that's working with her in the same court has been doing it for about 20 years and only earning something in the region of R25k pm. That is totally shocking for such experience.

To me it makes sense for her to carry on in criminal law at Legal Aid or a private practice, after articles to gain further experience. She can then focus on her conveyancing studies and when that's done, consider going at it with her own firm.

 

[cguy]

I have a few lawyer friends in CT and Jhb. The only big thing that I've been able to take away from conversations with them is that apparently Jhb is the place to be for law (pay wise). It's apparently where most of the corporate law takes place, and companies are far less likely to not pay their bills, negotiate for fewer billable hours, etc.

 

[HavocXphere]

Ok cool thanks. Im guessing experience is key here.

Yup. On the CA side they're actually starting to block people from starting their own firm immediately after articles...nobody is keen on having a bunch of cowboys winging it.

Also - take care of this concept of "making partner". It very much depends on "partner of what?". If the firm isn't profitable then there is little point.

 

[RVR]

I've heard that criminal law is to saturated, i would choose option 4 for now. Starting your own firm/practice without much knowledge on how one is run could be a bad move, maybe work at a firm, gain some experience and see how things are running then go for your own Start up.