Leased Lines vs ADSL (& Contention)

gina

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Hope this newbie q. can be answered (or someone can point me into the right direction?)

We currently have Diginet (64Kb Local & 32Kb intl). Just *have* to get more intl download capacity. Cap is no problem, but we are faced with 3 options:

1) Upgrade Leased line capacity to 64Kb intl (huge costs!)
2) Go Sentech route with VSAT (at least I am sure of contention rate and can be prepared for it...) But the costs might still be somewhat prohibitive?
3) ADSL. Main worry is can contention rate be calculated for ADSL?

As you can see I want to take an option that will cost me less than Diginet, but I also need better speeds (intl) than current Dnet can give us. We have about 15-20 users in office, mail is hosted locally at present (we can change that or use DDNS provider I assume?), but we would also need VPN. {Possible?}

I would be extremely grateful for any pointers or advice.
Tx!
 
It would be a fallacy to consider any of the alternatives you suggested, other than upgrading your international pipe facility to 64K or better. Has to do with having to pay for start-up costs for alternative services, improved utilisation of existing infrastructure, a potential increased support burden, and so on. The highest level of efficacy would be achieved by merely upgrading your Diginet facility, then rollout your VPN with minimal hassle. Trust this assists...
 
I just saw this on the Telkom site http://www.telkom.co.za - click on the adbox bottom right of the page:
Diginet Upgrade Opportunity: 1 April 2004 - 30 June 2004
Customers can upgrade their current Diginet <=64 Kbit/s services to Diginet Plus 128 Kbit/s services at only 50% of the incremental monthly rental costs. The reduced rental of the service ordered during this promotion will be applicable for the six months from implementation of the service, after the expiry of the six months the tariffs will revert back to the then current tariffs.
[/unquote]
Maybe this will make your costings look more favourable...
 
I agree with mbs... I would definitely recommend keeping your Diginet connection for your critical business applications (mail, VPN), however if all you need the extra international bandwidth for is browsing and downloading files then these are your options :

VSAT - Personally I think it's too expensive if you just need bandwidth for browsing and it doesn't rival Diginet's reliability.

MyWireless (if you're in a covered area) - The 512k option should comfortably support 20 users and you can get a static IP if you request it. While it isn't 100% reliable in terms of connectivity you get excellent bandwidth.

ADSL - DataPro have an interesting offer on their site :

http://www.datapro.co.za/products/bus_adsl.html

If you implement one of these options you could possibly even downgrade your Diginet if your ISP offers lower packages e.g. 64k local, 16k int. unless of course you send/receive lots of international mail.
 
I dont see any reason to keep the Diginet if you want to upgrade, in fact it is crazy to keep it. If you get get ADSL go for it, so long as you also have an ISDN line for backup should ADSL go down, then you are fine. If the cap is a problem either use 2 or 3 accounts to get through the month or get myWirless if available in your area.
You can have your ISP keep you mail and spool it to your server on request.
 
If it were a small business I would consider dropping the Diginet however I know quite a few people who tried dropping Diginet for ADSL and went back very quickly. Telkom have made ADSL flaky and prohibitive enough to make it unusable as the sole connection for most businesses where internet access is a core necessity. Also we all know how good Telkom's "best effort" is and with no SLA in place your business could be sitting offline for days before Telkom does anything about it.
 
For ASMITH - don't confuse the issue for the newbie, by ignoring business usage considerations and dogmatically proposing a solution. It's clear that this is a business decision that needs to be made, which is not necessarily met by the kludge approach of multiple accounts or services, in an attempt to meet the facility requirement. Like I said, there are additional considerations besides the purely technical, such as start-up costs for alternative services, improved utilisation of existing infrastructure, a potential increased support burden, and so on.

On (admittedly superficial) workings I did a while ago, my guesstimate is that the current Telkom ADSL service is generally useless for any business with a reasonable transactional volume, and is only suited for browsing and occasional ad-hoc *minimal* download, in a consultancy/contractual-type environment of not more than 5 users, where business-critical operations are not dependent upon it. I don't believe it's currently suitable for anything much more than this, and the only real option for businesses that wish to use ADSL, is to contract-in via a DataPro-type service, as noted by PERDITION. It's not even suitable for Internet Cafes, the way I see it (though previous postings on this site have indicated that there are some people out there, doing exactly this). My reading of GINA's original posting is that MyWireless is not an option, given its exclusion...
 
mbs : You Sound like a system analyst. 100pages to go! Why does IS (information systems) have so much to read, l8er time to study.

gina I agree with mbs.

..- dot dot dash ;)
 
LOL with FREEEK - heehee, nah, not at the moment, though I used to be one many years ago... Old habits die hard, though, and I do tend to suffer from both verbal and written diarrhoea when trying to explain something - it's certainly better than an inadequate understanding and the consequent danger of half-baked solutions...
 
You can do inter branch VPN with a dynamic IP, so long as you know what the other IP is, which is easy if you use some form of dynamic dns such as dyndns.org. You can also have head office on a fixed IP or a hosting box with a fixed IP as the central router for the VPN.

Why is ADSL no good for more than 5 users? My previous employer had 20 users on a 192k diginet line, why is 512k ADSL not enough?
I know of a company running 15 users on an ADSL line with ISDN for backup when adsl dies.
I guess it depends what the staff are doing, if the boss is going to let them all download games and junk all day then it will be slow. But most normal companies do not use huge amounts of bandwidth for email, banking,news and other work and lunch break related net usage.
 
As I've indicated before, it's very much a case of transactional volumes, usage patterns and the business-critical facility requirement. There are numerous 'e-aware ' businesses out there, which use the Internet in the manner for which it was originally designed, viz. cooperative and interactive working. All you have to do, is think of the number of distributed application layers out there, deployed on multiple geographically-dispersed servers, simultaneously serving numerous client machines with diverse operating systems - this is a not uncommon situation for many businesses, and I'm not only referring to large ones. Quite frankly, any business that does not take advantage of the comms capabilities offered by the Internet, is not 'e-aware' in the true sense of the word, and should not be seen as 'normal' - of course, it depends on the nature of the business and its core activities. However, these days even the corner cafe can utilise the Internet for transacting business - this includes on-line wages, stock ordering, creditor payments, etc.

Typically, these days the range of 'Internet-enabled' applications (or 'Web Services' applications, which is the current buzz-word) extends to all the traditional business apps, including financials, orders, purchasing, HR, stock, assets, etc. If you think of the potential transaction load generated by these apps, you should understand the justification for my statement about 5 users maximum. And if you really need to understand why ADSL is such an abortion when it comes to Telkom's offering, you need look no further than the on-line gaming communities, who generate transactional volumes of note everytime they kill an avatar, find a key, bomb the hell out of someplace, whatever. And of course such communities are a business - think of the potential for a thriving games development and usage sector in South Africa, were it not for Telkrap's myopic offerings...*sigh*
Trust this assists...
 
mbs,

Have a look at Telkom's web site, specifically, the "Telkom Mobility" service they are offering.

This seems to be a reasonable VPN over ADSL solution. If they wanted to reduce costs for improved throughput, they might want to look at this, combined with DataPro uncapped ADSL at the main branch, any thoughts?

Gina,

If you have mission critical mail passing through your line, I would not move from Diginet, as the other services available are what Telkom calls "best effort" and there is absolutely no guarantee that anything will be repaired if something breaks.

If constant internet access is not absolutely essencial, you could consider connecting the DataPro Uncapped ADSL solution at your main branch, and using Telkom Mobility over ADSL to carry VPN traffic between your branches. You would also need to have an ISDN back-up at the main branch should the ADSL line fail, but then you might still be without your VPN.

If all you really want is a boost in bandwidth, there might be another solution for you.

It is possible to operate two links. You could keep the Diginet line as is, and use it for mission critical tasks, hosting, mail transfer, VPN, etc, and as a back-up link for web browsing.

Then, install an ADSL line as an additional link, either the DataPro uncapped service, or Telkom's capped offering. DataPro is highly recommended if you will need to be downloading a lot of files.

This is reasonably simple to set up. Leave the Diginet as the main default route for IP traffic in and out of your office, but set up a catch-rule on your router to redirect web traffic to a transparent proxy server. Squid, running on a UNIX machine with lots of RAM, lots of storage space and a processor with healthy performance specifications is highly recommended.

You can now use the transparent proxy to force-route your web traffic through the alternate connection. This will mean that your mission critical data will still travel via the stable and reliable, but slower, Diginet interface, and web traffic will travel via the faster ADSL interface when available.

The transparent proxy server will also act as a web cache, if set up to store large files, it will significantly improve your line usage efficiency, as the data for Windows updates, virus updates, etc, would only need to pass through your external line once, when first downloaded by one of your users, and from there on, will be served to the other users directly from the proxy cache. This will also greatly improve browsing speed on popular web sites, and web sites used frequently by your users.

Again, I should state that if you go for this option, I would most certainly recommend the DataPro uncapped offering. With the uncapped ADSL offering, you could route all your web traffic across the ADSL line without worrying about the cap, and set up network monitoring software to automatically remove the catch-rule from your router and route web traffic through the Diginet interface if they ADSL interface should drop for any reason. Many SNMP based tools are available to allow such automatic configurations.

With the Telkom offering, you would need to manually reconfigure your router to route the web traffic over the Diginet line each month, as soon as you have reached your cap, and change it back at the beginning of the next month. Most business users would find this unacceptable.

I hope this helps. If you would be interesting in trying a dual-link solution, I would be more than happy to help you set it up. Feel free to drop me a mail at any time.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
PODO, your solution certainly makes sense, and if GINA's costings allow for it, would not only be feasible, but also viable, provided the Telkrap offering is excluded entirely. In other words, dual-link with the existing Diginet facility and DataPro offering, with a box as a caching server (with, as you say, a fast processor, *nix and loads of core and store). I would not even consider the 'Telkom Mobility' offering, due to SLA issues. Suggest GINA seriously consider the dual-link solution - great stuff, Willie! [:)][:)]
 
Datapro's "business" ADSL package will give you everything you need. They will even spool mail for you and you're looking at around R2500 p/m.

Give them a call. I host with thim and have done business with them for a while and have been generally happy with their pricing, policies, and support.

http://www.datapro.co.za/


<center><h5><font color="red">Oo. MyWireless <s>Hacks</s> Tweaks & Tech Info.oO </font id="red"></h5><h6>Have you checked the fawking FAQ?</h6></center>
 
I always say keep yoour diginet for critical applications as your routing is straight forward and use ADSL with dynamic dns for local access/surfing. We do have client on ADSL that get mail direct but we still have to have redundent mail spooling for them. Watch your international, the diginet route is expensive.... why is it expensive... because telkom charges sooo much for diginets and E1 links.
 
Hmmm I'm not convinced about datapro as a solution. When I heard about their offer I mentioned it to a friend of mine running a small business and their local sales guy pretty much refused to sell it to him after figuring out that he was technically competent, which does make me worry a little.

We currently use an adsl line at work for browsing with a couple of accounts which we rotate (has anyone written a script to swop accounts in the PPPoE config?). Our critical stuff runs through a 192kbit line, so I can definitely recommend it as the way to go.
 
"Hmmm I'm not convinced about datapro as a solution." hmmm first negative post about Datapro that I have heard.

Storm Internet is also planning to have uncapped adsl and they are kind enough to provide you with a static ip. I think that should solve the vpn story. I would still recommend keeping a isdn line as backup for the odd situation of some downtime. Diginet is the devils income bringer. If all business stopped using diginet telksum would be inserious problems

..- dot dot dash ;)
 
well i use Linux to load baalnce between multiple sim. links and this works great you can also rate limit the line to prevent suprises ... 2lines running at 64/128 are perfect 128 is for http and the 64 for smtp ...

32kbs 100% 10G
64kbs 100% 20G

office hours +/- 30%
32kbs 3G
64kbs 6G
128kbs 12G
 
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