Leave pay

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Stefanmuller

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I resigned beginning of this month, and am working my 1 month's notice, so will receive my last paycheck end of October.

I was wondering about my leave payout. I have 15 days leave per year, and our business closes over December/Festive season for 10 or 11 days every year, and again for two business days over Easter, which you are basically forced to take. So you are left with 1 or 2 days during the year which you can take on your own free will.

To make it easier, let us assume that all my leave must be taken over December and Easter every year. I started 1 October 2005. To my mind, I have worked for basically a full year this year, not taking any leave, and am in need of a holiday, which I will miss by about a month and a half. I will also not have any leave at my new job, unless I build up some days which will take a few months. So it feels like I am entitled to 10 months of my annual leave to be paid out.
But on the other hand, if you take my starting date of 1 October, and take the year cycles from there, I worked for 5 years and had 5 Decembers and 5 Easters. This is because when I started 5 years ago on 1 October, I only worked for 2,5 months and went on December holiday (because the business closes) and had Easter. So how does this work then, because it feels a bit unreasonable to get no leave payout because and having no December leave. Then again, if you look at it from October to October wise, then I got all my leave due to me.

I also heard that when looking at leave due to you, you look how many days have been built up since your last leave, and that you can only look at 18 months at most, after which it falls away. And to me it makes sense that when you take 15 days leave, it is for the months worked preceding that holiday.
Anybody know how this works?
 
Too complicated for my brain to read atm.

Did you finish your articles, what are you going to do?
 
Hi Stefan, it is not too difficult to work out. You have worked for 5 years up to 30 Sep 2010.
so your total leave days should be 5*15=75 days + 1.25 days for Oct, since you are going end of October.
Total = 76.25 days
Deduct the days you have taken, I think it is according to what I can see (10 or 11 + 1 or 2) * 5.
The balance should be paid out.
Just find out what the policy is re accumulation of leave, in some companies you forfeit a certain amount of days if you accumulate too many days.
As far as the 18 month leave fall-away, only if you signed a contract which states in black and white that leave not taken after 18 months will fall away or if it is company policy, but then you must have received a letter to that effect when you started working there.
They cannot just take your leave away if they feel like it.
Hope this helps.
 
SiriS said:
Too complicated for my brain to read atm.

Did you finish your articles, what are you going to do?
Click to expand...

Finished articles yes, but moving to another firm in a more senior position. At least till I have my Honours.
Just wanting to know how this stuff works because I will be called in to discuss it and I know that my boss will find some reason not to pay it. I just have to know if his calculations are correct. I don't like fighting over leave pay, but at the end of the day I am entitled to it. But rather just make sure before claiming I have leave due to me.
 
One thing to take into consideration is that you got 11 days leave after only working your first +-2 months.

Unless I misunderstood...
 
TruthSeeking said:
Hi Stefan, it is not too difficult to work out. You have worked for 5 years up to 30 Sep 2010.
so your total leave days should be 5*15=75 days + 1.25 days for Oct, since you are going end of October.
Total = 76.25 days
Deduct the days you have taken, I think it is according to what I can see (10 or 11 + 1 or 2) * 5.
The balance should be paid out.
Just find out what the policy is re accumulation of leave, in some companies you forfeit a certain amount of days if you accumulate too many days.
As far as the 18 month leave fall-away, only if you signed a contract which states in black and white that leave not taken after 18 months will fall away or if it is company policy, but then you must have received a letter to that effect when you started working there.
They cannot just take your leave away if they feel like it.
Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I know how the 1,25 leave per month work for each cycle, and according to that, I already received all the leave I am entitled to. But the whole forced leave because of the office closing, screws it around a bit, because what would have happened if I decided to resign in January, after getting back from leave? Then I actually owe my boss money, or will have to work to the end of October next year, because that is when my cycle ends. In my situation I have worked for 10 months this year, without any leave during that 10 months. Technically might not get any payout for it because of leave that I got 5 years ago that was not due to me, but not that I had a choice back then, the office closed. I hope I haven't chosen the worst time to resign, because if that is the case, I won't have any holiday this year or December :(
 
stevovo said:
One thing to take into consideration is that you got 11 days leave after only working your first +-2 months.

Unless I misunderstood...
Click to expand...

Correct, that is what I think he will be bargaining on or what his argument will be. Because although I have 11 days now without having had any leave so far this year, it gets cancelled by that first leave I got after 2 months. But the company closes in December so it is forced leave. This is exactly what I'm worrying about.
 
So, leave GIVEN to me (not asked for) 5 years ago will now kick me in the butt. They should have told me that I will be in debt with leave after that first holiday when I started. Then it makes sense, but I think that when looking at leave, you look at the amount of months worked since your last leave, and subtract all the days leave you took since then and what is left is leave days that are due to you. Can leave of 5 years ago still be taken into account?
 
Keep in mind : You accumulate 1.25 a month. If you started 1 October 2005 and took 10 or eleven days, you would have gone into NEGATIVE leave UNLESS YOU WERE SHORT PAID FOR THOSE DAYS. So for 2005 you were entitled to 3.75 and you took lets say 10 your balance brought forward would be -6.25.

2006 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25
2007 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25
2008 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25
2009 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25

In 2010 you accumulated 12.50 up to end October
MINUS the Annual Leave days, if any, that you used during this year (?) EXAMPLE 2 days for fun = 10.50

You still owe them 6.25 days for going into negative in 2005 so 10.50 - 6.25 = 4.25 payable to you.

Say you earn 25 000 a month the formula to see how much you will be paid out in Rand looks as follow:

R25 0000 / 21.67 (average days in month) x 4.25 days owed to you = R4903.09 before tax.

Thats about it. Hope it helps. :)
 
Baroness said:
Keep in mind : You accumulate 1.25 a month. If you started 1 October 2005 and took 10 or eleven days, you would have gone into NEGATIVE leave UNLESS YOU WERE SHORT PAID FOR THOSE DAYS. So for 2005 you were entitled to 3.75 and you took lets say 10 your balance brought forward would be -6.25.

2006 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25
2007 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25
2008 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25
2009 allowed 15 and used 15 balance = -6.25

In 2010 you accumulated 12.50 up to end October
MINUS the Annual Leave days, if any, that you used during this year (?) EXAMPLE 2 days for fun = 10.50

You still owe them 6.25 days for going into negative in 2005 so 10.50 - 6.25 = 4.25 payable to you.

Say you earn 25 000 a month the formula to see how much you will be paid out in Rand looks as follow:

R25 0000 / 21.67 (average days in month) x 4.25 days owed to you = R4903.09 before tax.

Thats about it. Hope it helps. :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the effort. I will make the calculation as you did above, but I think it is about spot on. With your calculation above you take account of my "negative days" in the beginning and keep carrying that over to next years. Provided that those negative days of 5 years ago do still count, it is safe to say that I don't have any leave due to me, except for this current month. Where can I go to for 1.25 days? Any ideas? LOL. Just seems a bit harsh, but makes sense. I should have resigned just after the holidays rather. Then I would have owed them days actually (but then it gets subtracted from my salary, which is also not cool).
 
What kind of sucks is that back in those days I only earned R3 600 per month, where no I earn more than triple that. So say I have 15 days due to me, I have to subtract those Negative days of 5 years back, even though salary wise those days only count as 3 days equivalent to my current salary. FML. Goodbye HD Flatscreen/Weekend away
 
Leave never falls away (forfeit). See Basic Conditions of Employment Act. http://www.labour.gov.za/documents/useful-documents/basic-conditions-of-employment

Thats why leave cannot be encashed. E.g. "Pay Instead of Annual Leave"

Employers may not pay workers instead of granting leave, except on termination of employment.
Based on Legislation in Section 21, of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act

EDIT!! Sorry researched a bit.
Leave days can be forfeited that were given in excess of the minimum statutory requirement which is 15 working days per leave cycle if you work 5 days a week. So if you get 20 working days leave per 12 month cycle you may forfeit the additional 5 days if you have not used it within the required time. You cannot forfeit the statutory 15 days.
 
Last edited:
AFAIK leave gets forfeited after 18 months. I think this is a new rule.
 
Heita_Hola said:
AFAIK leave gets forfeited after 18 months. I think this is a new rule.
Click to expand...

That is when you have leave due to you, say 20 days for the past 18 months. Your employer will then ask you to take your leave, or else it will fall away. Don't know what the case is when you have "negative leave". The more I look at it, the more it looks like I won't get anything. It just seems a bit harsh to work a full year and in change get no leave nor any payment.
 
Stefanmuller said:
That is when you have leave due to you, say 20 days for the past 18 months.
Click to expand...
So the whole thing of calculating from 2005 falls away as well. Unless I don't understand the whole leave thing.

So for now you can calculate how many leave days you have from last October + the previous year (considering the 18 months period).
So if you haven't taken leave since last October, then they owe you 15 days leave (if you are entitled to 15 days anyway) + the previous year owed to you, if not yet forfeited.
 
Heita_Hola said:
So the whole thing of calculating from 2005 falls away as well. Unless I don't understand the whole leave thing.

So for now you can calculate how many leave days you have from last October + the previous year (considering the 18 months period).
So if you haven't taken leave since last October, then they owe you 15 days leave (if you are entitled to 15 days anyway) + the previous year owed to you, if not yet forfeited.
Click to expand...

Yes, but then they are going to say but I took December 2009 holidays, which, according to me is the leave for the year that has past before that (1 Oct 2008 - 30 Sept 2009). But then if we go back and back and back to the start, I got 11 or 12 days for "free" in the beginning. I would be very surprised if I do get anything, because my boss did not pay any leave to the guy who resigned a month before me and started in Jan 2006. His excuse was that he took more study leave than he was entitled to, even though all his study leave was granted as "study leave" and it was signed like that, and never for "normal" leave. I just want to be prepared when it happens.
 
Stefanmuller said:
That is when you have leave due to you, say 20 days for the past 18 months. Your employer will then ask you to take your leave, or else it will fall away. Don't know what the case is when you have "negative leave". The more I look at it, the more it looks like I won't get anything. It just seems a bit harsh to work a full year and in change get no leave nor any payment.
Click to expand...

Just keep saying to yourself that you already used this years leave at the beginning of the year... it won't change the facts but maybe it will make you feel a bit better :)
 
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