Leopard hunts hunter

@copa We don't eat animals because we have to, we eat animals because we like to i.e. for pleasure. I think I've already asked the question, why it's ok to kill and eat for pleasure and not just kill for pleasure?
 
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Nick333 said:
@copa We don't eat animals because we have to, we eat animals because we like to i.e. for pleasure. I think I've already asked the question, why it's ok to kill and eat for pleasure and not just kill for pleasure?
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For me, it's okay because we have been doing it since man was man, which is why our biology is omnivorous, and as long as people make an effort not to mistreat the animals, and give them a painless death as possible, I have to be okay with that, as I ate a steak the other day.

As for killing for pleasure, well, as I said, the circumstances are not controlled, and as per the story, animals do suffer because of it. Then again, I suppose we could ask what's worse, a quick death, and life in the stockyards, or a potentially nasty death, but a life under the sky, out in nature proper?

The reality is, I suppose that our meat industries are generally quite awful, and the focus is on profit and volume, with very little emphasis in most places, on the well-being of the animals.

I think the only way I could really be coherent about this, is the day I stop eating meat, something I have tried a couple of times, but never seem to stick to.

On a continuum, I think healthy animals, raised in good conditions, and humanely slaughtered for food is not too bad.

Animals raised in miserable conditions, and slaughtered with an emphasis on speed and efficiency is probably the norm, and often a terrible experience for the animals.

If I did not eat meat I'd probably be advocating no killing of animals unless absolutely necessary.

As for trophy hunting, I abhor it, although I obviously can't deny the money it obviously generates, and the boost to tourism it gives. I just personally cannot reconcile hurting a living thing, simply to have a pretty thing to look at.

As for hunting for food. I'd not do it myself, but nor am I going to condemn people for doing it, while I am still willing to ingest the fruits of their efforts.
 
Nick333 said:
You people do realise that legal hunting and conservation pretty much go hand in hand these days, right? If there weren't any hunters there would be a hell of a lot less protected land for wild life to live on? Also, foreign hunters bring in much needed foreign currency that provide jobs and other lovely economic type things.
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I understand hunting. You just do not hunt animals on the extinction list.
 
Alot of uneducated comments here sigh.... Honestly try and be honest here....How many of you actually support conservation...I mean financially or physically " helping out at a local sanctuary... or I would even go so far as to just ask how many go to game farms/reserves just for a little break away....There might be a few ..But hell going on like this about something you dont reallly support is just stupid.....2 People almost died.... Think about it... I agree totally that its fair game ... Thats the risk when you hunt dangerous game...every hunter knows this "should know this" ... But going on as if they deserved to almost die is sickening.

Anyhow just my 2c
 
copacetic said:
For me, it's okay because we have been doing it since man was man, which is why our biology is omnivorous, and as long as people make an effort not to mistreat the animals, and give them a painless death as possible, I have to be okay with that, as I ate a steak the other day.

As for killing for pleasure, well, as I said, the circumstances are not controlled, and as per the story, animals do suffer because of it. Then again, I suppose we could ask what's worse, a quick death, and life in the stockyards, or a potentially nasty death, but a life under the sky, out in nature proper?

The reality is, I suppose that our meat industries are generally quite awful, and the focus is on profit and volume, with very little emphasis in most places, on the well-being of the animals.

I think the only way I could really be coherent about this, is the day I stop eating meat, something I have tried a couple of times, but never seem to stick to.

On a continuum, I think healthy animals, raised in good conditions, and humanely slaughtered for food is not too bad.

Animals raised in miserable conditions, and slaughtered with an emphasis on speed and efficiency is probably the norm, and often a terrible experience for the animals.

If I did not eat meat I'd probably be advocating no killing of animals unless absolutely necessary.

As for trophy hunting, I abhor it, although I obviously can't deny the money it obviously generates, and the boost to tourism it gives. I just personally cannot reconcile hurting a living thing, simply to have a pretty thing to look at.

As for hunting for food. I'd not do it myself, but nor am I going to condemn people for doing it, while I am still willing to ingest the fruits of their efforts.
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Well, the point is that there is no moral distinction between eating meat and enjoying hunting even if it's only for the sake of a trophy. Hunting is as much a part of our heritage as eating meat. If you eat meat it's a purely emotional distinction, one you can't expect everyone to make or judge anyone for not making.

I've personally never hunted and never intend to. No offense, but abhorring trophy hunting doesn't make you an objectively better person. And I'm not talking about you, but hating hunters of any kind enough to get off on their misfortune is just blatant prejudice.

Having said that, the irony of the situation isn't lost on me.
 
Mila said:
I understand hunting. You just do not hunt animals on the extinction list.
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Really? Not even pandas?

9cDWg.jpg
 
Nick333 said:
Well, the point is that there is no moral distinction between eating meat and enjoying hunting even if it's only for the sake of a trophy. Hunting is as much a part of our heritage as eating meat. If you eat meat it's a purely emotional distinction, one you can't expect everyone to make or judge anyone for not making.

I've personally never hunted and never intend to. No offense, but abhorring trophy hunting doesn't make you an objectively better person. And I'm not talking about you, but hating hunters of any kind enough to get off on their misfortune is just blatant prejudice.

Having said that, the irony of the situation isn't lost on me.
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As I said, the only way I can be really coherent about my opinion on the matter, is if I didn't eat meat.

Is it purely emotional? Well, as I kept trying to point out, there is certainly a distinction with regard to suffering, hunting is simply not as controlled as a slaughterhouse, so I think there is an argument to be made that hunting purely for trophies is 'more wrong' than killing an animal as humanely as possible for food.

Does it make me objectively better? Of course not, it's just my emotional reaction to the various situations.

I don't hate hunters at all, there's a great deal to hate in this world, and in my books, hunters are pretty far down the list. :p

I don't feel sympathy at all, but I certainly don't want to crow at their injuries and possible death. I do find it rather darkly amusing, and certainly feel terrible for any people they leave behind if they are killed, but I can't bring myself to cry a tear for someone who takes an animal on, with all the technology at their disposal, and the animal 'wins'.
 
Nick333 said:
Really? Not even pandas?

9cDWg.jpg
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I love pandas... :o

A person that has a stuffed leopard has small penis syndrome and should go to a penis enlargement clinic not a hunting safari.. It will cost him less and be more effective.
 
copacetic said:
Is it purely emotional? Well, as I kept trying to point out, there is certainly a distinction with regard to suffering, hunting is simply not as controlled as a slaughterhouse, so I think there is an argument to be made that hunting purely for trophies is 'more wrong' than killing an animal as humanely as possible for food.
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Objectively, neither is wrong.
 
Mila said:
I love pandas... :o

A person that has a stuffed leopard has small penis syndrome and should go to a penis enlargement clinic not a hunting safari.. It will cost him less and be more effective.
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Same go's for guys who drive hummers. It's not nice to laugh at hummer drivers that get driven over by other hummer drives though. I mean we will of course, but we wont really think he deserved it.
 
copacetic said:
What about torturing animals for pleasure?
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Good question. I can't see how you could apply a humane standard to torturing animals for pleasure so I'm pretty comfortable taking a moral stance that it is wrong.
 
Nick333 said:
Same go's for guys who drive hummers. It's not nice to laugh at hummer drivers that get driven over by other hummer drives though. I mean we will of course, but we wont really think he deserved it.
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humahumahuma...
 
Nick333 said:
Good question. I can't see how you could apply a humane standard to torturing animals for pleasure so I'm pretty comfortable taking a moral stance that it is wrong.
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How about bow hunting?

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I'm just trying to understand at what point we decide that one thing is humane and one thing is not.

For me, hunting for pleasure, without even the result of receiving practical materials and food from the beast, combined with the fact that the pain level of the animal is not easily controlled, crosses a line for me.

Perhaps it's an invisible emotional line, but it's definitely there for me.
 
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copacetic said:
How about bow hunting?

*edit*

I'm just trying to understand at what point we decide that one thing is humane and one thing is not.

For me, hunting for pleasure, without even the result of receiving practical materials and food from the beast, combined with the fact that the pain level of the animal is not easily controlled, crosses a line for me.

Perhaps it's an invisible emotional line, but it's definitely there for me.
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Well, here's the thing, given that eating meat is no longer essential to our health and survival it really is just for our convenience and pleasure. So, who are you or I to decide that our enjoyment of a steak is more worthy than some douches enjoyment of a stuffed leopard in his living room? I think the only real standard is one of humaneness. In other words whether the individual is apparently capable of feeling enough empathy for their victim to make the death as quick as possible given the context.

Enjoying torturing animals would display a complete lack of empathy and (at least to my mind) a lack of humanity and therefore outside of the bounds of human morality.
 
Nick333 said:
Well, here's the thing, given that eating meat is no longer essential to our health and survival it really is just for our convenience and pleasure. So, who are you or I to decide that our enjoyment of a steak is more worthy than some douches enjoyment of a stuffed leopard in his living room? I think the only real standard is one of humaneness. In other words whether the individual is apparently capable of feeling enough empathy for their victim to make the death as quick as possible given the context.

Enjoying torturing animals would display a complete lack of empathy and (at least to my mind) a lack of humanity and therefore outside of the bounds of human morality.
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Yep, I would tend to agree, and that's why the only practical argument I have is of control and pain, which I think is still reasonable. If there was a gun that hit the animal, and killed it in a split second, I'd not really have an argument. :p
 
copacetic said:
Yep, I would tend to agree, and that's why the only practical argument I have is of control and pain, which I think is still reasonable. If there was a gun that hit the animal, and killed it in a split second, I'd not really have an argument. :p
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A bullet to the brain is just as quick as a nail gun or whatever they use at the abattoir I assure you. Lazer sites and sniper rifles sort of defeat the point of hunting although you do get a lot of guys who do that sort of thing. Like mila said tracking and stalking is really the essence of hunting but makes it harder to get a quick kill.

At the end of the day, nature is a bloody bitch and there are very few peaceful deaths in nature. It doe's seem a bit unnecessary to kill an animal you're not going to eat that is no threat to you, but the chances are it's going to die a slow painful death someday anyway. Is it our duty to ensure no wild animal suffers when it dies or just that we aren't the ones to cause them that suffering?
 
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