Licensing software

[battletoad]

I've developed an app in my free time. I will be sitting down with my employers to see if said app can be implemented within the organisation (with a financial incentive for me of course).

The kicker is that, I'm told, whatever an employee develops is automatically owned by the organisation since they assume you will be using their resources. However, if you can prove none of their resources were used (how this is done I have no idea), then there is no issue and whatever you develop is yours. Since I did it in my spare time, I trust I have no issue here.

Furthermore, I am not a developer as far as my job description goes, i.e. afaik nothing in my contract states that whatever I develop is theirs. However, my app will make my job easier.

To make a long story short, I have no idea how to write a software license, or what constitutes a fair license for both parties. How would I word:
1. Even though I use your resources for my demonstration, e.g. your network, this application is still mine.
2. Whatever changes you request to be made to said app, the app is still mine. Reason I prefer this is that if they provided some ideas for the app, they cannot now claim they provided a resource and by extension the app is now theirs. Tbh I'm a bit two-minded about this one.

I simply want to protect myself, and if any commercial ventures can be implemented then I want to be a part of the process.

Any other tips/experiences would be appreciated.

EDIT: if one of those standard apache/lgpl/etc. licenses suffices which would it be?

 

[gkm]

The kicker is that, I'm told, whatever an employee develops is automatically owned by the organisation since they assume you will be using their resources. However, if you can prove none of their resources were used (how this is done I have no idea), then there is no issue and whatever you develop is yours. Since I did it in my spare time, I trust I have no issue here.

This depends on your employment contract. There is nothing automatic here, especially if developing software is not part of the job you were contracted for and you did not use employee resources.

I am a software developer, not a lawyer, but overall you are in very messy territory here. Especially if you app somehow directly relates to your work, then the employee can have an IP (Intellectual Property) claim on what you are developing, even if they do not have a copyright claim.

An example for me personally, a couple of years ago I developed an App that is even today in the top 20 free download list in the Google play store for South Africa. I did it in my spare time and then after maintaining the app a bit handed it over to the company. It is still being maintained today by the company and has been improved massively since the original work I did, even through I am not with the company any more. I got a small bonus for the app, which was definitely less than 5% of what it would have cost them to have the app developed as an outsource solution. But I was very happy with my bonus, since for me the main benefits was the fun to do a meaningful application, rather than some Hello World thing and the fact that I can put the App on my CV etc.

Bottom line I think is, do you want to try to make some money from your application (which would be very messy) or do you want to see your application flourish while becoming a more valuable employee (since you have the detailed knowledge here.)

 

[mercurial]

It really depends on the contract you signed with them. Usually, companies make you sign a intellectual property agreement as part of your contract and so whatever you create whilst using company property, means that it's theirs. That's how I understand it anyway. You would need to prove that you didn't create the app using their resources.

 

[battletoad]

This depends on your employment contract. There is nothing automatic here, especially if developing software is not part of the job you were contracted for and you did not use employee resources.

It really depends on the contract you signed with them. Usually, companies make you sign a intellectual property agreement as part of your contract and so whatever you create whilst using company property, means that it's theirs. That's how I understand it anyway. You would need to prove that you didn't create the app using their resources.

Resources used: weekends (not at work), my personal computer and personal smartphone. No resources which are provided by them are used. Will give contract a thorough reading though.

I am a software developer, not a lawyer, but overall you are in very messy territory here. Especially if you app somehow directly relates to your work, then the employee can have an IP (Intellectual Property) claim on what you are developing, even if they do not have a copyright claim.

The target of the app is very general, not something specific to my employer. To be honest, it is a solution that can be used by any business no matter how small.

An example for me personally, a couple of years ago I developed an App that is even today in the top 20 free download list in the Google play store for South Africa. I did it in my spare time and then after maintaining the app a bit handed it over to the company. It is still being maintained today by the company and has been improved massively since the original work I did, even through I am not with the company any more. I got a small bonus for the app, which was definitely less than 5% of what it would have cost them to have the app developed as an outsource solution. But I was very happy with my bonus, since for me the main benefits was the fun to do a meaningful application, rather than some Hello World thing and the fact that I can put the App on my CV etc.

Bottom line I think is, do you want to try to make some money from your application (which would be very messy) or do you want to see your application flourish while becoming a more valuable employee (since you have the detailed knowledge here.)

All I want is payment for providing them a fully functioning solution initially.

Ideally, I'd prefer to open source it and provide services if needed at a small fee. But if, in the long run, it and other executed ideas lead to a promotion, then I'm fine with simply making worthwhile apps/solutions for them and receiving a small royalty if I'm very lucky.

Meh, I'm probably a bit too paranoid! I mean, if I'm a worthwhile employee I'll more often than not be looked after no?

 

[stevenv]

Resources used: weekends (not at work), my personal computer and personal smartphone. No resources which are provided by them are used. Will give contract a thorough reading though.

I think what might factor in is the intellectual property you've obtained while doing your job which then lead to your creating the application to aid in performing that job. In other words, you've been paid by them to do a job: instead of doing it, you've been figuring out how to optimise it (not a bad thing) but it might mean that since you were being paid in the first place, said optimisation now belongs to the company. This could be part of a process improvement, training, documentation or software tool, purchased or developed.

The target of the app is very general, not something specific to my employer. To be honest, it is a solution that can be used by any business no matter how small.

All I want is payment for providing them a fully functioning solution initially.

So it's something they could sell to other businesses? If so, I would say that technically you developed a product for them, while on the job. This is certainly reason enough for a decent bonus, raise or promotion but whether you can actually sell the product to them, I'm not so sure. That is unless you work for a really great company that has a history of this type of agreement. Sadly, many companies are about making money for their owners or shareholders which as a shareholder doesn't sound like a bad idea but as an employee, not so much. But then again, you do get paid.

Ideally, I'd prefer to open source it and provide services if needed at a small fee. But if, in the long run, it and other executed ideas lead to a promotion, then I'm fine with simply making worthwhile apps/solutions for them and receiving a small royalty if I'm very lucky.

Open source? I doubt they would want to give away your effort if there's a potential for commercial success, regardless of whose PC was used. I do however agree with your alternative: this may lead to many good things. Trying to make them pay for the product might be a bit tricky, but turning it around and making them see how awesome you are is not a bad avenue to take. There's some trust involved here though since unless you have an established relationship with the company and they have a proven track record of rewarding innovation, you might be handing over your hard work for very little in return.

Meh, I'm probably a bit too paranoid! I mean, if I'm a worthwhile employee I'll more often than not be looked after no?

Optimistic much? Depends on the company: some are cut throat and only care about the bottom line and corporate direction. Others really value their employees and would be more than willing to give as much as they take. It really just depends who you work for!

 

[battletoad]

Thanks for the tips guys, much appreciated!

I'll have a sit down with a couple of the managers tomorrow, will let you know how it pans out.

I do believe that my organisation rewards innovation, I guess it depends how I sell myself ultimately (making sure they understand I am somewhat integral... the man-for-the-job per se, to the solution for now). Besides, this app is a piece of an overarching strategy I have in mind that can benefit the organisation. Just need to play my hand right.

Tx again!

 

[Fudzy]

Can it be deployed as a service? If so, you could set up a site and company and sell the service back to your company and others. The clincher with your company will be your know-how and understanding of their business which you can wrap up in a SLA.