Lonmin NUM Chairman killed

See post 19.

Incorrect. It's not about negotiating skills.

Union bosses own microlending companies. When the employees are in **** because they haven't been paid for a month, who do you think they go to?

Anyone who can do basic maths knows that a long strike over a small pay dispute is just not worth it. If the union leaders had their employees' interests at heart they would not allow this to happen.
 
http://www.fin24.com/Economy/South-Africa/NUM-official-killed-as-unrest-fears-rise-20131018

The National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) said on Friday one of its shaft chairpersons at platinum producer Lonmin was shot dead in the restive platinum belt town of Marikana, an incident sure to stoke labour tensions.

"He was killed last night. We don't know why at this stage, but there appears to be a resurgence of violence in the area," NUM spokesperson Lesiba Seshoka told Reuters.

NUM has had tens of thousands of members in the platinum shafts poached by rival union the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union (Amcu), in a turf war that killed dozens of people in 2012. Sporadic killings have occurred this year.

Police spokesperson Thulani Ngubane confirmed a man was gunned down on Thursday night but did not release his name and said the reason for the shooting was unknown.

"He was on his way to the informal settlement that is next to Lonmin. As he was about to pick up his girlfriend, four men opened fire at his vehicle. He got out of the car and he got hit by seven bullets and then died on the scene," he said.

Lonmin spokesperson Sue Vey said the victim was the NUM chairperson at the Roland shaft at the company's Western Platinum mine.

"We cannot say if this is linked to the union rivalry or not," she said.

Lonmin's Marikana operations were at the epicentre of the union conflict last year. Police shot dead 34 striking miners there in August 2012 in the bloodiest security incident in the country since the demise of apartheid.

Lonmin earlier this year recognised Amcu, known for its militancy, as the majority union at its operations and stripped bargaining rights and even office space from other unions including NUM, a key ANC ally.
 
Incorrect. It's not about negotiating skills.

Union bosses own microlending companies. When the employees are in **** because they haven't been paid for a month, who do you think they go to?

Anyone who can do basic maths knows that a long strike over a small pay dispute is just not worth it. If the union leaders had their employees' interests at heart they would not allow this to happen.

It is in large part about ignorance on the part of the union leaders. Do you honestly think all of them are highly educated, very experienced?

Also, in some cases, they get misinformation from management, leading them to make ill-informed choices.

And many of them still abide by the notion that disruptive tactics will get them what they want.
 
It is in large part about ignorance on the part of the union leaders. Do you honestly think all of them are highly educated, very experienced?

Also, in some cases, they get misinformation from management, leading them to make ill-informed choices.

And many of them still abide by the notion that disruptive tactics will get them what they want.

They're educated and experienced enough to profit from their workers' plight.

You think management draw the strikes out so they don't have to pay wages or something?

EVERYONE loses in a strike, except the parasites lending the workers money and punitive interest rates.
 
They're educated and experienced enough to profit from their workers' plight.

You think management draw the strikes out so they don't have to pay wages or something?

EVERYONE loses in a strike, except the parasites lending the workers money and punitive interest rates.

I seriously hope you are not implying that every union leader has a micro-lending business, because that is just not true.
 
I seriously hope you are not implying that every union leader has a micro-lending business, because that is just not true.

The alternatives are too horrible to contemplate.
 
You seem to look at this in a very one-sided way. Stop putting all the blame for the problem on the Unions.

I have never seen Anglo American management rampaging through the streets, burning stuff.
 
I seriously hope you are not implying that every union leader has a micro-lending business, because that is just not true.

Indirectly and directly, many do. They also encourage the use of micro-lenders during a strike simply to avoid members demanding speedy conclusions. The reasons why strikes last as long as they do in this country is 9 times out of 10 the unions attempt to benefit themselves. Just look at the recent motor industry strike where wage settlement was made but the strike continued for two more weeks because the union by their own accord decided to add personal agendas to the negotiations. That's not a lack of negotiation skills at all. That's just politics and corporate hostage taking using their members as pawns.

I'm sorry but you're trying to make out as if union leaders are these bastions of employee liberty with admirable motives but unintentionally poor methodologies. That's just bull. They're well aware of what they're doing. They're often unwilling to engage with civility, or at all, with management. They tend to benefit from their members' strife in one way or another. They intentionally hold companies and government to ransom. They often encourage splinter groups to get violent either directly or indirectly by not addressing violence to begin with. Their mandates often involve making things unbearable for workers and the employer in order to justify their own existence. And they're run like the mafia with people threatened, attacked, murdered, and forcefully encouraged to be on their side.

They're not the blithering idiots with hearts of gold and rainbow schit that you make out they are. They're typically cold, callous and calculating, cretinous criminals with political and financial agendas...
 
Indirectly and directly, many do. They also encourage the use of micro-lenders during a strike simply to avoid members demanding speedy conclusions. The reasons why strikes last as long as they do in this country is 9 times out of 10 the unions attempt to benefit themselves. Just look at the recent motor industry strike where wage settlement was made but the strike continued for two more weeks because the union by their own accord decided to add personal agendas to the negotiations. That's not a lack of negotiation skills at all. That's just politics and corporate hostage taking using their members as pawns.

I'm sorry but you're trying to make out as if union leaders are these bastions of employee liberty with admirable motives but unintentionally poor methodologies. That's just bull. They're well aware of what they're doing. They're often unwilling to engage with civility, or at all, with management. They tend to benefit from their members' strife in one way or another. They intentionally hold companies and government to ransom. They often encourage splinter groups to get violent either directly or indirectly by not addressing violence to begin with. Their mandates often involve making things unbearable for workers and the employer in order to justify their own existence. And they're run like the mafia with people threatened, attacked, murdered, and forcefully encouraged to be on their side.

They're not the blithering idiots with hearts of gold and rainbow schit that you make out they are. They're typically cold, callous and calculating, cretinous criminals with political and financial agendas...

I am not fan of unions. I am no fan of management either!!

I am simply trying to make a point that blame does not rest on only one party.

At the client for whom we are doing an enquiry, management screwed them over big-time. It is an ongoing investigation so I cannot post details, but just keep in mind that sometimes strikes are engineered to suit management's agenda as well.
 
I am not fan of unions. I am no fan of management either!!

I am simply trying to make a point that blame does not rest on only one party.

At the client for whom we are doing an enquiry, management screwed them over big-time. It is an ongoing investigation so I cannot post details, but just keep in mind that sometimes strikes are engineered to suit management's agenda as well.

Nobody is saying blame rest on one party only...

But currently, the blame is predominantly centered on the Unions in terms of the crap they cause for their members.

Yes management will pay people as little as possible to get the job done, but striking for a month every year does NOT benefit your members in the slightest, they're pretty much all in dire financial positions now.
 
I have never seen Anglo American management rampaging through the streets, burning stuff.

Or workers of any other company for that matter.

The desire to destroy what you can't/don't have is an African thing that's being exploited by the unions.
 
I am not fan of unions. I am no fan of management either!!

I am simply trying to make a point that blame does not rest on only one party.

At the client for whom we are doing an enquiry, management screwed them over big-time. It is an ongoing investigation so I cannot post details, but just keep in mind that sometimes strikes are engineered to suit management's agenda as well.

It is an unfortunate situation where government has condoned and gone so far as to push for greater union power, that has resulted in an "us vs them" mentality between unions and senior management. The blame for these issues, and the associated solutions if blame were to be accepted, lies with the government...
 
I have never seen Anglo American management rampaging through the streets, burning stuff.

AngloAmerican management are not innocent with respect to problems at Amplats. So, the issues cannot to blamed on the unions alone. This is why Mark has tasked teams all around the world to review operations, find out why 70% of Anglo mines are not meeting their targets. And Unions are not to be blamed for that.
 
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