Looking at upgrading... but get confused so much!!!

[iDenTiTy]

I currently have a D3000.
Nice cam and such, but feel that I have outgrown it a bit.

I have now decided that I'd like a bit more assistance in framing my scene (liveview), and would also like to shoot movies.

When looking at various options online, from various manufacturers (I only own 1 zoom lens in addition to the standard kit lens), there are so many stats thrown about that it starts to confuse me!

I have set myself a budget of about R12k. Should I change manufacturer, it isn't a problem - I can either give my camera to my father, or just sell the whole kit.

Since I'd like to shoot movies, and would like AEB (I had to do it manually on the D3000), I have considered the following:

Canon:
60D
7D

Nikon:
D90
D5100
D7000

My question/s is thus:

Ignoring the articulating screen on the 60D, is the 7D such a better body, that it warrants an extra +-2k?
If I decide to stay with Nikon, would the D7000 be overkill? Or would I be better served with the D90?

I should say, that I'm seriously considering changing make, as I've experienced a few cases, where there were more lenses available (or compatible with) for Canon (including AF).

I'm so torn.


Any 'tographers willing to give me some advice as to which would better suite my needs?

 

[koffiejunkie]

Ignoring the articulating screen on the 60D, is the 7D such a better body, that it warrants an extra +-2k?

Yes. After shooting with a 7D for the last year and a bit, I would not consider a 60D.

If I decide to stay with Nikon, would the D7000 be overkill? Or would I be better served with the D90?

Both are great, but if you can afford the D7000, it's a decent step forward over the D90. Same deal as above - I wouldn't buy a D90 if I could a afford a D7000 - that 16MP sensor is sweet.

I should say, that I'm seriously considering changing make, as I've experienced a few cases, where there were more lenses available (or compatible with) for Canon (including AF).

Nikon has released a torrent of new lenses in the last year, so look again. Something else to consider is the size - the D7000 is a touch smaller than the 7D, at least that's the way it feels in my hands. I have difficulty with some of the controls, feels cramped. But I have big hands. You should go to a shop and handle both and spend some time getting to know the controls. That ends up being important when you use it a lot.

 

[iDenTiTy]

Yes. After shooting with a 7D for the last year and a bit, I would not consider a 60D.



Both are great, but if you can afford the D7000, it's a decent step forward over the D90. Same deal as above - I wouldn't buy a D90 if I could a afford a D7000 - that 16MP sensor is sweet.



Nikon has released a torrent of new lenses in the last year, so look again. Something else to consider is the size - the D7000 is a touch smaller than the 7D, at least that's the way it feels in my hands. I have difficulty with some of the controls, feels cramped. But I have big hands. You should go to a shop and handle both and spend some time getting to know the controls. That ends up being important when you use it a lot.

What I did when I bought the D3000 was felt how it sat in my hands. It felt better than the 1000D. Which is why I bought it.
Regarding the lenses - youre probably right, as I haven't looked at getting many more lenses (only a fixed lens...). So I might have missed the boat in thar regard.

I like the 7D, if only because of it's all-round goodness.

One question though, when they quote the 6 vs. 8 fps shooting, they obviously reffering to stills?
i.e. for Sport photography?


So you recon I should just save for a bit longer and go for the 7D?

 

[koffiejunkie]

One question though, when they quote the 6 vs. 8 fps shooting, they obviously reffering to stills?
i.e. for Sport photography?

Yes. Be aware that you need a stupidly fast CF card to sustain 8fps at 18MP for more than a second and a bit. I have a 60MB/s card, and that only gives me burst of around 13 frames before the buffer is full and the camera slows down. I imagine this is even worse on the D7000, since SD cards still suck at speed (compared to CF, at least).

So you recon I should just save for a bit longer and go for the 7D?

If you're leaning towards the Canon, well, it depends. The reason I like the 7D over the 60D has more to do with the autofocus. It covers more of the frame (more focus points), and is orientation aware. In other words, I have one configuration for portrait mode, and one for landscape mode, so as I turn the camera between shots, it adjusts automatically. That's a huge aid for a lot of the shooting I do. I also like the 100% viewfinder (not sure what the 60D has). In terms of image quality, they'll be identical - same 18MP sensor. If you're mainly going to be AEB stuff on a tripod, the 60D is probably better value for money.

 

[iDenTiTy]

Yes. Be aware that you need a stupidly fast CF card to sustain 8fps at 18MP for more than a second and a bit. I have a 60MB/s card, and that only gives me burst of around 13 frames before the buffer is full and the camera slows down. I imagine this is even worse on the D7000, since SD cards still suck at speed (compared to CF, at least).




If you're leaning towards the Canon, well, it depends. The reason I like the 7D over the 60D has more to do with the autofocus. It covers more of the frame (more focus points), and is orientation aware. In other words, I have one configuration for portrait mode, and one for landscape mode, so as I turn the camera between shots, it adjusts automatically. That's a huge aid for a lot of the shooting I do. I also like the 100% viewfinder (not sure what the 60D has). In terms of image quality, they'll be identical - same 18MP sensor. If you're mainly going to be AEB stuff on a tripod, the 60D is probably better value for money.

Hmm. Didn't know that.

That is VERY useful!

 

[koffiejunkie]

That is VERY useful!

Yep! Now, if only the spot meter followed the active focus point in single point AF (it does on Nikon).

BTW, my comments about frame rate relates to shooting RAW. In jpeg mode it can machine-gun for ever.

 

[floydthebarber71]

I think the D7000 is indeed overkill. The same sensor is in the D5100 which is a really good bang-for-buck camera. I upgraded from a D60 to D7000 because I needed some extra features for my MF lenses and sports. Otherwise D5100 is more than adequate, imo!

If you're keen on shooting video, then I'm sure you know you're gonna need tons of expensive accessories to get the job done right. In that case I'd definitely go for D5100 over D7000 ito cash saving.

I can't speak for Canon, don't really know their models too well..

 

[floydthebarber71]

http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/class...208&title=nikon-d5100283-2c650-shots-29&cat=3

I can't vouch for validity of seller, price, etc, you'll have to do your homework on the specifics. But keeping an eye out on classifieds would be your best bet!

 

[LazyDemoni]

I think the D7000 is indeed overkill. The same sensor is in the D5100 which is a really good bang-for-buck camera. I upgraded from a D60 to D7000 because I needed some extra features for my MF lenses and sports. Otherwise D5100 is more than adequate, imo!

If you're keen on shooting video, then I'm sure you know you're gonna need tons of expensive accessories to get the job done right. In that case I'd definitely go for D5100 over D7000 ito cash saving.

I can't speak for Canon, don't really know their models too well..

I've been looking at the D5100 and was disappointed by the finicky controls to change camera settings compared to something like a D90 which has more buttons and dials.

If iDenTiTy feels he has outgrown his current camera, would it not be better for him to get something with more accessible controls like the older D90 or the new D7000?

 

[floydthebarber71]

D90 is prev generation, I would avoid. I got a D60 which has minimal controls and used that for sports somehow. You get used to navigating around, it really isn't a train smash. For me, anyway - he'd have to try it for himself.

All you need to really change is aperture, shutter speed and ISO. Those can be done with the buttons and one dial..

 

[Quantum Theory]

I would go for the D7000, not the D5100... That is if it fits your budget.

 

[iDenTiTy]

Hmm, it just dawned on me...
My D3000 didn't have a AF motor built in, so I had to choose AF-S lenses for AF.
The same applies for the D5100.
It seems the D7000 is exempt.

(The Canons 60D and 7D, both have a built in AF motor).

Damn.
:/

 

[Quantum Theory]

I believe the D400 will also be announced mid-year. That of course will be the real 7D competitor, while the D7000 competes with the 60D.

 

[froot]

Let me jump in quickly....
I love my 7D.
Amazing in every aspect that I've looked at.
Definitely worth the upgrade from a 60D.

 

[bwana]

I don't know why buy you want to use live view to frame your landscapes . . . and you also seem interested in video . . . so the 60D makes more sense to me. If you had said you wanted to try your hand at some genre of photography where a higher fps rate would have been relevant then I'd have said go for the 7D but you didnt.

My 2¢ - get the 60D and put the difference towards better glass, a tripod with a fluid head, lights, etc.

 

[koffiejunkie]

(The Canons 60D and 7D, both have a built in AF motor).

Actually, neither have. No canon body has a built-in motor. All canon Lenses have a built in motor. That's where things are confusing in the Nikon camp. When they introduced AF, they didn't change the lens mount like canon did. They kept it the same and simply added a motor to the body to drive the AF lenses (Pentax did the same). Canon went the other way (which ultimately proved to be the better way, IMHO) by putting the motor in the lens. In the mean time, Nikon started introducing lenses with motors in and started dropping motors from the lower end bodies, so there's this overlap of lenses and bodies that both don't have motors. But as far as I know, Nikon has announced replacement for all the old motorless lenses.

 

[iDenTiTy]

Actually, neither have. No canon body has a built-in motor. All canon Lenses have a built in motor. That's where things are confusing in the Nikon camp. When they introduced AF, they didn't change the lens mount like canon did. They kept it the same and simply added a motor to the body to drive the AF lenses (Pentax did the same). Canon went the other way (which ultimately proved to be the better way, IMHO) by putting the motor in the lens. In the mean time, Nikon started introducing lenses with motors in and started dropping motors from the lower end bodies, so there's this overlap of lenses and bodies that both don't have motors. But as far as I know, Nikon has announced replacement for all the old motorless lenses.

Hmm. Okay.
So, both the bodies are fully compatible with all the Canon lenses? So, I should get full AF with oldish lenses as well?

I'm just hesitant to fall in the same pool, by having a good-ish camera, but am limited to the lenses I can get. For example, I saw a fantastic price on an AF lens (was an FX lens) fixed. But couldn't AF on it with my D3000.

If Canon is different in that regard, then by jove, I'm going to change manufacturers.

 

[iDenTiTy]

I don't know why buy you want to use live view to frame your landscapes . . . and you also seem interested in video . . . so the 60D makes more sense to me. If you had said you wanted to try your hand at some genre of photography where a higher fps rate would have been relevant then I'd have said go for the 7D but you didnt.

My 2¢ - get the 60D and put the difference towards better glass, a tripod with a fluid head, lights, etc.

I was thinking the same thing.


Is the 60D also orientation aware? Like the 7D?

 

[koffiejunkie]

Hmm. Okay.
So, both the bodies are fully compatible with all the Canon lenses? So, I should get full AF with oldish lenses as well?

Any EF or EF-S mount lens will fit and give you AF on either bodies. The only thing to be aware of is that EF-S lenses do not work (I don't think fit either) on 5D or 1D series cameras. EF-S are 1.6x crop lenses, specifically, and only work on 1.6x crop bodies (DX in nikon nomenclature). EF lenses are full frames and fit on all Canon EOS bodies.

If you're into buying second-hand lenses, you'll see FD mount lenses. That's the old Canon mount from the manual focus days. They can be used with an adapter, but sans AF and automatic exposure (so really only in M mode). That's really only useful for people who already own these lenses, because the prices they're going for is not significantly cheaper than older EF mount lenses.

I'm just hesitant to fall in the same pool, by having a good-ish camera, but am limited to the lenses I can get.

The only time when you'll be limited on which lenses you can use, is if you had a 1.3x crop body (1D), full frame body (1DS and 5D) or if you buy one of canon's first DSLRs (D30, D60 and I think 300D) which was released before the EF-S mount.

For example, I saw a fantastic price on an AF lens (was an FX lens) fixed. But couldn't AF on it with my D3000.

None of that on the Canon side.

 

[iDenTiTy]

Any EF or EF-S mount lens will fit and give you AF on either bodies. The only thing to be aware of is that EF-S lenses do not work (I don't think fit either) on 5D or 1D series cameras. EF-S are 1.6x crop lenses, specifically, and only work on 1.6x crop bodies (DX in nikon nomenclature). EF lenses are full frames and fit on all Canon EOS bodies.

If you're into buying second-hand lenses, you'll see FD mount lenses. That's the old Canon mount from the manual focus days. They can be used with an adapter, but sans AF and automatic exposure (so really only in M mode). That's really only useful for people who already own these lenses, because the prices they're going for is not significantly cheaper than older EF mount lenses.



The only time when you'll be limited on which lenses you can use, is if you had a 1.3x crop body (1D), full frame body (1DS and 5D) or if you buy one of canon's first DSLRs (D30, D60 and I think 300D) which was released before the EF-S mount.



None of that on the Canon side.

Thank you.

Also, regarding the continuous AF on the Nikon (video).
If the 60D doesn't have it, what if I am filming a subject but it moves around in a scene.
Will it lose focus once it starts moving, and as a result, have a wonky scene?

:/