Make some suggestion for a technology stack

[Fulcrum29]

I can only advise you on the hosting, broadband, hardware etc. Applications in regard with development is not our speciality in company capacity and service range.

Things you need to consider are the initial capital layout and the requirements, some already mentioned here by the Forumnites. You should try to explain in minimum your deployment by phases so that it can be addressed accordingly, also list milestones within your timeline by capacity requirements.

 

[CheekyC]

well, seeing as I firmly don't buy the "I have X users now, but I might have X+billion in the future, I am going to cater for that" argument, the answer is simple to me.

Sure, I wont have millions of users. But the project is funded by the government as well as UN as it addresses needs of various countries. So few thousand users is a fair guess as to where I will end up

essentially a LAMP stack, replacing any of the letters with your own.

I am bias, but would go with LAMJ(ava)

software is a business. business = profit. essentially software should be written as cheaply as possible (cheap does not equal bad quality), as quickly as possible, while satisfying all the requirements, support realist future growth, and not be written so poorly that it cannot be easily refactored to cater for unforeseen circumstances.

100% correct.. also a question of availability of skills.. leveraging existing work i have done etc

 

[CheekyC]

I can only advise you on the hosting, broadband, hardware etc. Applications in regard with development is not our speciality in company capacity and service range.

Things you need to consider are the initial capital layout and the requirements, some already mentioned here by the Forumnites. You should try to explain in minimum your deployment by phases so that it can be addressed accordingly, also list milestones within your timeline by capacity requirements.

tx will keep that in mind

 

[Paul Hjul]

If you are writing an application system for multiple organizations you really should look at building up solutions that fit in with the Apache sets of technology - and not just the apache web server. Skills shouldn't be a problem to source and you have a software licensing paradigm that is open to innovation and covers almost all bases.

I assume you are looking to be essentially an SA based operation, in which case the keeping POPI and even RICA in mind is important. From my view you should probably make sure you have somebody with legal knowledge on staff before forking out a fortune on software developers. Remember cloud services - especially private cloud - is about service far more than technologies. Having proper support structures are an absolute must.
Microsoft are doing a lot of work on private cloud computing but my overall inclination is that if you are looking to innovate go with Apache.

 

[CheekyC]

If you are writing an application system for multiple organizations you really should look at building up solutions that fit in with the Apache sets of technology - and not just the apache web server. Skills shouldn't be a problem to source and you have a software licensing paradigm that is open to innovation and covers almost all bases.

I am not very familiar with Apache in this context. Why would you say what you do above?

I assume you are looking to be essentially an SA based operation, in which case the keeping POPI and even RICA in mind is important. From my view you should probably make sure you have somebody with legal knowledge on staff before forking out a fortune on software developers. Remember cloud services - especially private cloud - is about service far more than technologies. Having proper support structures are an absolute must.
Microsoft are doing a lot of work on private cloud computing but my overall inclination is that if you are looking to innovate go with Apache.

Good point

 

[Paul Hjul]

Apache is a foundation that has a massive number of technologies under their hood with a really good licensing foundation. The Apache Web Server is the most famous and forms the A in the old LAMP stack but a whole pile of other stuff forms part of the foundations tool kit: Hadoop, Cloudstack and Deltacloud all come to mind when reading what you are needing. There is ample directory service support and so on. What I am suggesting is that you specifically look at developing your systems using Apache enabled tools - it might kick a couple of things out but I don't imagine it will. So if you have developers on hand wanting to use Ajax use Wicket or Tapestry.

OpenOffice for example has found itself under the Apache umbrella and while there is a lot more progress with LibreOffice and MS Office is just awesome the scope of OpenOffice is really useful.

My remark is more along the lines of:

I need to develop a very large Line of Business system that will integrate several organisations, internationally and local, including government departments. The system will most likely be browser based, but there will also be offline/online mobile devices in the picture.

so you need to have a general software technologies direction an easy "safe" choice of course is Microsoft who can offer both public and private cloud solutions
Google is an option if its not private cloud that you need but I am assuming that you need a private cloud.
Apache would be nice as a general direction.

Are you based in SA? If yes, then remember we have some legal implications as a jurisdiction. On the whole I think SA is not a bad jurisdiction for putting up software service firms although there are shortcomings. Going with Apache as a solutions direction is really helpful from a licensing point of view.

 

[CheekyC]

Apache is a foundation that has a massive number of technologies under their hood with a really good licensing foundation. The Apache Web Server is the most famous and forms the A in the old LAMP stack but a whole pile of other stuff forms part of the foundations tool kit: Hadoop, Cloudstack and Deltacloud all come to mind when reading what you are needing. There is ample directory service support and so on. What I am suggesting is that you specifically look at developing your systems using Apache enabled tools - it might kick a couple of things out but I don't imagine it will. So if you have developers on hand wanting to use Ajax use Wicket or Tapestry.

OpenOffice for example has found itself under the Apache umbrella and while there is a lot more progress with LibreOffice and MS Office is just awesome the scope of OpenOffice is really useful.

My remark is more along the lines of:

so you need to have a general software technologies direction an easy "safe" choice of course is Microsoft who can offer both public and private cloud solutions
Google is an option if its not private cloud that you need but I am assuming that you need a private cloud.
Apache would be nice as a general direction.

Are you based in SA? If yes, then remember we have some legal implications as a jurisdiction. On the whole I think SA is not a bad jurisdiction for putting up software service firms although there are shortcomings. Going with Apache as a solutions direction is really helpful from a licensing point of view.

Thanks for the insight. I will check out Apache. Just that I am not very familiar with that environment. Mostly from a MS background. But I want to choose a stack that will scale and not necessarily go with what I know.

Yes based in SA (CPT). Initially hosting will be here but all likely will move when the whole international part comes on board. The pilot is here in SA. Where can I read up on the legal implications? Just to get an idea. Not aimain to become an expert. Just want to see the general scope.

 

[Paul Hjul]

well the major advantage of the way SaaS operates is that you can use multiple venue hosting and selectively host material in the jurisdiction best suited. Legal implications for different things will require different reading up but the ECA, RICA, ECT and POPI come to mind. Ultimately however you need to get some legal knowledge and skills on board.

In my view an advantage of SA is that the primary document collection instrument for law enforcement is the CPA and it should be a hell of a lot more cost effective than in most other jurisdictions to have a subpoena processing desk.

 

[semaphore]

Apache is a foundation that has a massive number of technologies under their hood with a really good licensing foundation. The Apache Web Server is the most famous and forms the A in the old LAMP stack but a whole pile of other stuff forms part of the foundations tool kit: Hadoop, Cloudstack and Deltacloud all come to mind when reading what you are needing. There is ample directory service support and so on. What I am suggesting is that you specifically look at developing your systems using Apache enabled tools - it might kick a couple of things out but I don't imagine it will. So if you have developers on hand wanting to use Ajax use Wicket or Tapestry.
.

If he go's the microsoft stack he can apply for a bizspark license and get all MS tools for nothing.

 

[Paul Hjul]

If he go's the microsoft stack he can apply for a bizspark license and get all MS tools for nothing.

hence why I say that Microsoft is a "safe bet" I do however feel for several reasons that if you are wanting to innovate and if technology obsolescence is a concern it isn't ideal to lock yourself into a vendor of Microsoft's nature. Where MS in my view is great is RAD and one of the reasons I really believe in the Apache Foundation should form the basic direction of technologies adopted is because there is a good working relationship there.

 

[semaphore]

hence why I say that Microsoft is a "safe bet" I do however feel for several reasons that if you are wanting to innovate and if technology obsolescence is a concern it isn't ideal to lock yourself into a vendor of Microsoft's nature. Where MS in my view is great is RAD and one of the reasons I really believe in the Apache Foundation should form the basic direction of technologies adopted is because there is a good working relationship there.

While i agree to a point, Microsoft is very open with their stacks these days. Releasing .NET source code, ASP.NET source code amongst others. They allow for multiple authentication end points so you arent tied to membrship anymore. The asp.net embraces open source js libs, database can be moved to postgres if you wish or other dbs. So i don't believe its vendor lock in.

Care to elaborate what yo mean by working relationship with apache?

 

[Paul Hjul]

there has been financial support from Microsoft to Apache (I don't think a hell of a lot so lets be careful not to overstate it) and a few other places where it seems Apache really enjoys a "good office" position not enjoyed by many other open source project frameworks and groups

Basically I don't see a Microsoft solution to compete with Cordova and I am not convinced that tying up to Silverlight makes any sense. Vendor lock in the sense I've suggested is more of a case of having your skills set set to Microsoft technologies.

 

[semaphore]

there has been financial support from Microsoft to Apache (I don't think a hell of a lot so lets be careful not to overstate it) and a few other places where it seems Apache really enjoys a "good office" position not enjoyed by many other open source project frameworks and groups

Basically I don't see a Microsoft solution to compete with Cordova and I am not convinced that tying up to Silverlight makes any sense. Vendor lock in the sense I've suggested is more of a case of having your skills set set to Microsoft technologies.

Silverlight is dead.

Most web apps should be written in pure js and html, there are enough frameworks to aid in this rapid type of development. Also you do not need to use platforms like Cordova if the app will not need to access functions of the phone or device.

And http://xamarin.com/? is alternative to Cordova in the .NET stack which compiles natively.

And if you need to store data offline there is things like http://jaydata.org/ that help.

 

[Paul Hjul]

Silverlight is dead.

Most web apps should be written in pure js and html, there are enough frameworks to aid in this rapid type of development. Also you do not need to use platforms like Cordova if the app will not need to access functions of the phone or device.

And http://xamarin.com/? is alternative to Cordova in the .NET stack which compiles natively.

And if you need to store data offline there is things like http://jaydata.org/ that help.

he has put an offline functionality with syncing as a requirement
xamarin gets a person into licensing requirements and costs

 

[_kabal_]

And if you need to store data offline there is things like http://jaydata.org/ that help.

Thanks for the link.

I am using a similar abstraction, ydn-db for a emberjs in node-webkit project

 

[semaphore]

he has put an offline functionality with syncing as a requirement
xamarin gets a person into licensing requirements and costs

Xamarin is royalty free.

If hes going to charge for software and there is a solution that will do the job, then i say purchase a license. And jaydata allows you to do synchronization when the app may come back online. (http://jaydata.org/blog/how-to-crea...-data-application-with-javascript-and-jaydata) / MS http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff872391.aspx / http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/sync/bb887608.aspx

 

[CheekyC]

Mobile i am not a fan of those abstraction tool kits, i would rather invest in people that can code for each platform but thats me.

Yes I hear you but the apps are data collection apps so not very complex. The adv of abstraction toolkit is that you can code with C# for both Android and iOS. As long as your abstractions are in place, you can dev & test on the desktop and deploy to device. Have done that before and is much better streamlined dev process than emulators etc

 

[semaphore]

Yes I hear you but the apps are data collection apps so not very complex. The adv of abstraction toolkit is that you can code with C# for both Android and iOS. As long as your abstractions are in place, you can dev & test on the desktop and deploy to device. Have done that before and is much better streamlined dev process than emulators etc

Well we've given you a rather large amount of tools you can chose from. It up to you now.

 

[CheekyC]

Silverlight is dead.

Agree

Most web apps should be written in pure js and html, there are enough frameworks to aid in this rapid type of development. http://xamarin.com/? is alternative to Cordova in the .NET stack which compiles natively.

I need to access GPS and camera so dont know if xamarin supports this

And if you need to store data offline there is things like http://jaydata.org/ that help.

or Sqlite. I have used sqlite on other devices and it works great. Great benefit is that the db file is binary compatible with desktop. At least on the devices I used. So again, develop on desktop with abstraction and simply move over to device. I have a huge C# code library that is source code portable between Desktop, Compact Framework and Mono.

 

[CheekyC]

he has put an offline functionality with syncing as a requirement
xamarin gets a person into licensing requirements and costs

Licensing is not such an issue. That can be budgeted for. Yes truly native is best for the various platforms, but time to market is also of the essence...