Man 'executed' in farm attack

[STS]

And why wouldnt the 'boerevryheid' movements be focused on farm murders? Their constituents' interests should be on the forefront of their minds. This is after all how any organisation is supposed to work. You look after your own interests first. I dont get why this is surprising to you.

it's not at all. what IS surprising is that a lot white people think crime is exclusively a thing that happens to them and not to black people. when you claim that there is a white genocide in south africa you're spitting in people's faces that have lost someone who was not white. people are taking a serious situation and turning it into a nutty conspiracy. i'm not denying farm murders are NOT racially motivated, i'm denying that it happens exclusively to them.

There are two issues here
[1] Farm murders seem to be racially motivated - as evidenced by the overwhelming ratios of attackers vs victims and the associated senseless violence. These people are not just being robbed or killed to get to their assets or anything like that. They are sometimes held and tortured for hours before being executed. You want to compare muggings gone wrong or opportunistic robberies turned bad to meticulously planned and executed torture, rape and murder? If you have evidence the same type of crimes are happening to blacks Id like to ask you again to point me to your sources. A muti murder or a drunken shebeen stabbing or a botched cellphone theft doesn't count because they are fundamentally different.

[2] Blacks are also victims of horrific crimes. It just so happens there doesn't seem to be the same pattern to the crimes as with farm murders.

Why are you having trouble believing both are true?

SOME farm murders are racially motivated, i'll agree, but you get house break ins and people being falsely arrested that are racially motivated too. just because there is a murder on a farm doesn't mean we must always apply "racist attack" to it. in some instances that i have read of farm attacks they have let the couple live, and if they do murder them, they take all the money, which means that greed was also a motivation. you also get black workers on the farm that are also targeted by the same criminals, how is that racially motivated?

the only pattern there is is that it's a farm, they're white and they were brutally murdered. there is also a pattern that women are raped in a location, brutally murdered and left in the veld, and there is no conspiracy for this. i also refuse to give any worth to any organisation that overlooks other horrific crimes simply because the victims aren't farmers or boers.

 

[thatdamnJoe]

it's not at all. what IS surprising is that a lot white people think crime is exclusively a thing that happens to them and not to black people. when you claim that there is a white genocide in south africa you're spitting in people's faces that have lost someone who was not white. people are taking a serious situation and turning it into a nutty conspiracy. i'm not denying farm murders are NOT racially motivated, i'm denying that it happens exclusively to them.

Claims of a white farmer genocide arent that inaccurate when compared to how many black farmers are killed in the same manner. Yes there are less black farmers, but that doesn't change the fact that a specific race group is being targeted for a specific type of crime by another race group. Thats not denying that other people or race groups are not being killed too or are not victims too. They are victims, but of an entirely different 'class' or type of crime. These people are being targeted because of who and what they are and you are trying to compare that to victims of opportunistic crimes.

SOME farm murders are racially motivated, i'll agree, but you get house break ins and people being falsely arrested that are racially motivated too. just because there is a murder on a farm doesn't mean we must always apply "racist attack" to it. in some instances that i have read of farm attacks they have let the couple live, and if they do murder them, they take all the money, which means that greed was also a motivation. you also get black workers on the farm that are also targeted by the same criminals, how is that racially motivated?

Some black workers are attacked too, but thats the exception, not the rule- covering your tracks is just common sense, even murderers know that.

the only pattern there is is that it's a farm, they're white and they were brutally murdered. there is also a pattern that women are raped in a location, brutally murdered and left in the veld, and there is no conspiracy for this.

And now you're applying the same rules to meticulously planned operations by up to four or five people as to opportunistic crimes by individuals? come on, its not that simple and you know it.

i also refuse to give any worth to any organisation that overlooks other horrific crimes simply because the victims aren't farmers or boers.

Yes, perhaps they should complain about all the other things that are going wrong in SA too? Interest groups look after their interests, thats what they do, why they exist. No one is stopping you from starting a" black females in locations" union to look after their interests. You seem to be saying that complaining about one thing means that you deny others may have similar problems - thats a fallacy. No ones denying there are other interest groups who also have valid concerns -but then those interest groups should open their mouths. You cannot blame a farmers union for complaining about farmers being murdered when others are being murdered too - are you trying to say that you have no right to complain if others also have problems?

 

[STS]

Claims of a white farmer genocide arent that inaccurate when compared to how many black farmers are killed in the same manner. Yes there are less black farmers, but that doesn't change the fact that a specific race group is being targeted for a specific type of crime by another race group. Thats not denying that other people or race groups are not being killed too or are not victims too. They are victims, but of an entirely different 'class' or type of crime. These people are being targeted because of who and what they are and you are trying to compare that to victims of opportunistic crimes.

i agree fully with that, i just disagree with the frequency then. and to call it genocide just makes it sound like it's organised. i agree that there are hate crimes and they they are terrible.

Some black workers are attacked too, but thats the exception, not the rule- covering your tracks is just common sense, even murderers know that.

but from the few points i do understand from stories is that the black workers killed are often also brutally murdered, i'm not very sure about the torture however. the men who commit hate crimes just seem unstable and like monsters.

And now you're applying the same rules to meticulously planned operations by up to four or five people as to opportunistic crimes by individuals? come on, its not that simple and you know it.

groups of people rob houses, groups of people gang bang women. these people are being caught and are found to have screws loose in their heads, at least from what i remember of the wikipedia article. the same applies to white supremacists.

Yes, perhaps they should complain about all the other things that are going wrong in SA too? Interest groups look after their interests, thats what they do, why they exist. No one is stopping you from starting a" black females in locations" union to look after their interests. You seem to be saying that complaining about one thing means that you deny others may have similar problems - thats a fallacy. No ones denying there are other interest groups who also have valid concerns -but then those interest groups should open their mouths. You cannot blame a farmers union for complaining about farmers being murdered when others are being murdered too - are you trying to say that you have no right to complain if others also have problems?

i'm not complaining about the farmers union, i'm complaining about afrikaner and boer movements. when white people who are more attached to the white race post stories and make it sound like their situation is not only more serious, but it's the only real crisis in south africa, they don't come across so well. they're not made up of bad people, just that these organisations are shooting themselves in the foot and making oblivious stereotypes. most groups i read are boers putting forth the topic of white genocide, and when that topic is talked to death they move on because they have nothing else they want to contribute, and i feel that this is just as wrong as the black people who come onto forums and groups who only want to discuss nationalisation and then leave

 

[thatdamnJoe]

i agree fully with that, i just disagree with the frequency then. and to call it genocide just makes it sound like it's organised. i agree that there are hate crimes and they they are terrible.


but from the few points i do understand from stories is that the black workers killed are often also brutally murdered, i'm not very sure about the torture however. the men who commit hate crimes just seem unstable and like monsters.

groups of people rob houses, groups of people gang bang women. these people are being caught and are found to have screws loose in their heads, at least from what i remember of the wikipedia article. the same applies to white supremacists.


i'm not complaining about the farmers union, i'm complaining about afrikaner and boer movements. when white people who are more attached to the white race post stories and make it sound like their situation is not only more serious, but it's the only real crisis in south africa, they don't come across so well. they're not made up of bad people, just that these organisations are shooting themselves in the foot and making oblivious stereotypes. most groups i read are boers putting forth the topic of white genocide, and when that topic is talked to death they move on because they have nothing else they want to contribute, and i feel that this is just as wrong as the black people who come onto forums and groups who only want to discuss nationalisation and then leave

Well this is the thing - there are those who believe that it IS organised and that the government has taken away the only thing that stood between them and this fate.

The government disbanded the commando units- arguing that those were police functions- this may have been true, but it was also true that the Police weren't and still aren't equipped, trained or geared toward fulfilling the funcitons of the commando units. The government was warned of all these things and still they chose to disband the units leaving the farmers to face their lot alone. If you are a target simply because of who you are, and any attack that materialises is likely to be brutal, such willful ignorance from the government who happily asks for your income taxes but turns a blind eye when you are being murdered systematically then thats a fertile ground for both real and imagined conspiracy theories.

Are farm murders being centrally planned? - Who knows?
Are they being condemned strongly enough by those in power? - It does not appear so, they are too busy asking the same question you are asking - why do they boers think they're special- when it should be clear the boers are only asking what everybody else should also be asking for, they just seem to be more adamant. No one should have to live in such fear and such conditions.

Denying someone the right to complain because "others have it just as bad" is missing the point; no one should be in a position to complain in the first place if government was doing its job.