Manual vs Automatic

Unbelievable the crap the developers come up with. So desperate for new gimmicks. Where the H does the 48v come from? Special batteries?
 
Under the skin: How Kia is keeping the manual gearbox alive

Kia’s fuel-saving clutch-by-wire system, claimed to be a world first, is made possible by 48V mild-hybrid tech

Kia's Intelligent Manual Transmission (iMT), with its clutch-by-wire system, set the antennae twitching at Autocar Towers, because the crystal ball had been revealing only automatic and semi-automatic gearboxes as the solutions to staying on top of future emissions regulations. Clutch-by-wire is an electronically controlled, electrohydraulic clutch actuation system that’s specifically designed to work with 48V mild-hybrid powertrains.

One of the problems powertrain engineers have faced, ever since emissions became a thing, is the driver. No matter how skilled they are, drivers aren’t good at getting the best efficiency out of an engine and gearbox, and that’s why the ‘integrated powertrain’ approach evolved, with engines and automatic gearbox control systems linked so they can achieve the best economy.

www.autocar.co.uk

Under the skin: How Kia is keeping the manual gearbox alive | Autocar

Kia’s fuel-saving clutch-by-wire system, claimed to be a world first, is made possible by 48V mild-hybrid tech
www.autocar.co.uk www.autocar.co.uk

Man 1.jpg
 
FiestaST said:
One of the problems powertrain engineers have faced, ever since emissions became a thing, is the driver. No matter how skilled they are, drivers aren’t good at getting the best efficiency out of an engine and gearbox, and that’s why the ‘integrated powertrain’ approach evolved, with engines and automatic gearbox control systems linked so they can achieve the best economy.
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Speak for yourself! Just another part of the process to turn all drivers into useless automatons by insulting those that do know how to drive! :mad:
 
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Geoff.D said:
Speak for yourself! Just another part of the process to turn all drivers into useless automatons by insulting those that do know how to drive! :mad:
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Oh come on Geoff. Big cars with big engines work better with auto gearboxes

Small cars with small engines work better with manual gearboxes.
 
Geoff.D said:
Speak for yourself! Just another part of the process to turn all drivers into useless automatons by insulting those that do know how to drive! :mad:
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Now, just why am I a "useless automaton" because I choose to have an automatic? The only one doing the insulting is you, dude, stuck back in the past.
 
Geoff.D said:
Speak for yourself! Just another part of the process to turn all drivers into useless automatons by insulting those that do know how to drive! :mad:
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The statement is 100% accurate... Drivers do not know how to get the best efficiency out of the combo of manual gearbox and engine. Regardless of how good they think they are.
 
ToxicBunny said:
The statement is 100% accurate... Drivers do not know how to get the best efficiency out of the combo of manual gearbox and engine. Regardless of how good they think they are.
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Well, no matter how good a driver thinks he is, he's still never going to be able to shift as quickly or efficiently as an automatic's TCU. We're dealing in fractions of a second here. It's unfair, even to F1 or rally drivers lol.
 
ToxicBunny said:
The statement is 100% accurate... Drivers do not know how to get the best efficiency out of the combo of manual gearbox and engine. Regardless of how good they think they are.
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The Voice said:
Well, no matter how good a driver thinks he is, he's still never going to be able to shift as quickly or efficiently as an automatic's TCU. We're dealing in fractions of a second here. It's unfair, even to F1 or rally drivers lol.
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There's the problem. Old drivers thinking they are better with a manual than modern autos.
 
Crowley said:
There's the problem. Old drivers thinking they are better with a manual than modern autos.
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100%.. I think I'm a very good driver, and that I can get close to the best out of a car (either economy or performance), but I am fully aware that the modern autos(DSGs and such fall into this area in a way) can play in the spaces that are too quick and such for me to operate.
 
Entertaining discussion, in the same league as the infamous Astra COTY thread!

In the interests of full disclosure, my first car was a 1964 VW Beetle, so you can figure out I am close to 70 (boomer)

The Beetle was a very simple car to maintain, there was a well-known book at the time by John Muir “How to keep your VW alive” and I enjoyed tinkering with engine, brakes, lights etc, never a clutch though.

I learnt quite a lot from this MYBB automatic/manual debate, and though I have never driven any of the very modern and expensive cars with DCT, DSG, ZF transmissions etc, I can well believe that they are very advanced, and designed for the ultimate in comfort and safety.

I have recently purchased a 2017 Nissan Almera (manual), and was in two minds as to whether an automatic would have been a better choice. I have owned old technology VW 3 speed auto cars, and the opinions expressed previously here are correct, the driving experience is OK, but not the greatest.

The choice of the Almera was simple, I wanted low maintenance cost, ultra reliable transport. No commuting!

The car was bought at an auction, so I could not test drive it.

It turned out to have a dodgy clutch, not slipping, but difficult to drive, so I had the clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (combined with slave cylinder) replaced.

Took a photo of the parts that were replaced, very simple technology! The slave cylinder is made of plastic, amazing!
1596037857119.png


Total cost R3600, including5 hours labour, and the car now drives like a dream.

My choice of a low maintenance cost car paid off big time.

What would a clutch replacement for a luxury car have cost?
 
soload00 said:
Entertaining discussion, in the same league as the infamous Astra COTY thread!

In the interests of full disclosure, my first car was a 1964 VW Beetle, so you can figure out I am close to 70 (boomer)

The Beetle was a very simple car to maintain, there was a well-known book at the time by John Muir “How to keep your VW alive” and I enjoyed tinkering with engine, brakes, lights etc, never a clutch though.

I learnt quite a lot from this MYBB automatic/manual debate, and though I have never driven any of the very modern and expensive cars with DCT, DSG, ZF transmissions etc, I can well believe that they are very advanced, and designed for the ultimate in comfort and safety.

I have recently purchased a 2017 Nissan Almera (manual), and was in two minds as to whether an automatic would have been a better choice. I have owned old technology VW 3 speed auto cars, and the opinions expressed previously here are correct, the driving experience is OK, but not the greatest.

The choice of the Almera was simple, I wanted low maintenance cost, ultra reliable transport. No commuting!

The car was bought at an auction, so I could not test drive it.

It turned out to have a dodgy clutch, not slipping, but difficult to drive, so I had the clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (combined with slave cylinder) replaced.

Took a photo of the parts that were replaced, very simple technology! The slave cylinder is made of plastic, amazing!
View attachment 883346


Total cost R3600, including5 hours labour, and the car now drives like a dream.

My choice of a low maintenance cost car paid off big time.

What would a clutch replacement for a luxury car have cost?
Click to expand...

I am not up to date on current manual clutch replacements but my 2005 Audi A4 Avant S-Line with 6 speed manual gearbox cost me around R14k a few years back to replace the clutch plate, pressure plate, dual mass flywheel and a few other bits and pieces. This was using private labour as a friend worked at a local VW dealership and I sourced parts myself as a friend owns a few Goldwagens.
 
soload00 said:
Entertaining discussion, in the same league as the infamous Astra COTY thread!

In the interests of full disclosure, my first car was a 1964 VW Beetle, so you can figure out I am close to 70 (boomer)

The Beetle was a very simple car to maintain, there was a well-known book at the time by John Muir “How to keep your VW alive” and I enjoyed tinkering with engine, brakes, lights etc, never a clutch though.

I learnt quite a lot from this MYBB automatic/manual debate, and though I have never driven any of the very modern and expensive cars with DCT, DSG, ZF transmissions etc, I can well believe that they are very advanced, and designed for the ultimate in comfort and safety.

I have recently purchased a 2017 Nissan Almera (manual), and was in two minds as to whether an automatic would have been a better choice. I have owned old technology VW 3 speed auto cars, and the opinions expressed previously here are correct, the driving experience is OK, but not the greatest.

The choice of the Almera was simple, I wanted low maintenance cost, ultra reliable transport. No commuting!

The car was bought at an auction, so I could not test drive it.

It turned out to have a dodgy clutch, not slipping, but difficult to drive, so I had the clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (combined with slave cylinder) replaced.

Took a photo of the parts that were replaced, very simple technology! The slave cylinder is made of plastic, amazing!
View attachment 883346


Total cost R3600, including5 hours labour, and the car now drives like a dream.

My choice of a low maintenance cost car paid off big time.

What would a clutch replacement for a luxury car have cost?
Click to expand...

Zero. 2017 car would still have been covered by warranty. Why is your 2017 Nissan Almera out of warranty?
 
Bought on auction, couple of services missing.
No issues with car though, other than the clutch
 
soload00 said:
Entertaining discussion, in the same league as the infamous Astra COTY thread!

In the interests of full disclosure, my first car was a 1964 VW Beetle, so you can figure out I am close to 70 (boomer)

The Beetle was a very simple car to maintain, there was a well-known book at the time by John Muir “How to keep your VW alive” and I enjoyed tinkering with engine, brakes, lights etc, never a clutch though.

I learnt quite a lot from this MYBB automatic/manual debate, and though I have never driven any of the very modern and expensive cars with DCT, DSG, ZF transmissions etc, I can well believe that they are very advanced, and designed for the ultimate in comfort and safety.

I have recently purchased a 2017 Nissan Almera (manual), and was in two minds as to whether an automatic would have been a better choice. I have owned old technology VW 3 speed auto cars, and the opinions expressed previously here are correct, the driving experience is OK, but not the greatest.

The choice of the Almera was simple, I wanted low maintenance cost, ultra reliable transport. No commuting!

The car was bought at an auction, so I could not test drive it.

It turned out to have a dodgy clutch, not slipping, but difficult to drive, so I had the clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (combined with slave cylinder) replaced.

Took a photo of the parts that were replaced, very simple technology! The slave cylinder is made of plastic, amazing!
View attachment 883346


Total cost R3600, including5 hours labour, and the car now drives like a dream.

My choice of a low maintenance cost car paid off big time.

What would a clutch replacement for a luxury car have cost?
Click to expand...
A luxury car wouldn't have a clutch. ;)

My 2002 Mondeo's clutch generally cost 10K every time I replaced it, thanks to a stupidly expensive dual-mass flywheel.
 
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