He will ignore you, while he keeps on going on about a certain auto population that will fit his narrative.
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Manual vs Automatic
- Thread starter DrewChan
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He will ignore you, while he keeps on going on about a certain auto population that will fit his narrative.
More on Nissan.
The more I dig, the more I find.---
Transmission troubles add to Nissan's woes
Nissan is coping with a cluster of problems, including a proposal from Renault for a holding company headquartered outside of Japan.www.autonews.com
Even though my original investigations were when I was in the market for a 4 x 4 in 2007, I see that if I was to again be in the market for a vehicle, I would end up in exactly the same place ---- choosing a manual if I could get one.
It does not matter which make you look at. there is enough expensive horror stories to find about failed automatic transmissions.
I guess for those that buy a new vehicle every 5 years, none of this matters.
Another article about Nissan:
Can You Trust Nissan's CVT? Probably Not.
For a while cracked radiators were the number one enemy of Nissan transmissions, but these days it appears the transmissions are their own worst enemy.www.nissanproblems.com
For crying in a bucket dude. "The more I dig, the more I find"?
Welcome to the internet.
So you last looked for a vehicle in 2007.
Sorry man, but you are now just coming across as bitching at people that can afford more expensive cars than you.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
"Low power small cars with automatic transmissions" -------!
"I guess for those that buy a new vehicle every 5 years, none of this matters."
Yes. But you still ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
In fairness BMW offer basically no manual models any more so one can safely assume any new BMW is in fact automatic.
Doesn’t change the observation in any way though.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Okay I can’t stand it any more and the correction needs to be made.
You don’t get a Tiptronic DSG, it doesn’t mean manual shift or paddles it’s literally two different things.
Tiptronic : Torque converter based old school
Automatic from the VAG group that can be manual shifted.
DSG : Dual clutch manual transmission from the VAG group using electronic clutches and often has paddles which is what people seem to like to call Tiptronic.
Multitronic : A CVT automatic gearbox from the VAG group that also sometimes has paddles.
Paddles <> Tiptronic.
You don’t get a Tiptronic DSG, it doesn’t mean manual shift or paddles it’s literally two different things.
Tiptronic : Torque converter based old school
Automatic from the VAG group that can be manual shifted.
DSG : Dual clutch manual transmission from the VAG group using electronic clutches and often has paddles which is what people seem to like to call Tiptronic.
Multitronic : A CVT automatic gearbox from the VAG group that also sometimes has paddles.
Paddles <> Tiptronic.
kripstoe
Expert Member
Correct, but I understand the confusion by many. Also sometimes the reason why people confuse the issues with the old multitronic with DSG for example. Also, DSG is similar to PowerShift but DSG is made under license (from BorgWarner) by VW, and PowerShift is made by Ford/Getrag. To make it more confusing, the gearbox in the Amarok is not DSG, but an auto made by ZF and also used in some BMW vehicles.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Glad the auto experts posted these clarifications. I was contemplating doing the same, but based on my supposed ignorance about automatic transmissions I decided that it was not my place seeing that so many have decided I don't know what I am talking about.
supersunbird
Honorary Master
Well, he says he can spot the differences externally.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Scenario. Two cars standing at a traffic light, one manual, one auto.
Both are waiting for the light to change.
The manual driver is riding the clutch, the other is holding the brake pedal down.
Both lose concentration and their foots slips.
The manual lurges forward and stalls.
The auto takes off like horse bolting. The auto anti-stall kicks in to prevent the car from stalling.
Which is the safer vehicle to be in?
How can both situations be prevented? Both place their vehicles in neutral/park with the hand brake on and concentrate on the task at hand.
Next driving on a highway and something goes seriously wrong with the transmission. The manual driver puts the car in neutral and coasts to the side of the road. The Auto stops dead in the lane.
Again which is overall the safer vehicle to be in?
/edit: both vehcles are exactly the sem model and make only diff is the transmission.
Both are waiting for the light to change.
The manual driver is riding the clutch, the other is holding the brake pedal down.
Both lose concentration and their foots slips.
The manual lurges forward and stalls.
The auto takes off like horse bolting. The auto anti-stall kicks in to prevent the car from stalling.
Which is the safer vehicle to be in?
How can both situations be prevented? Both place their vehicles in neutral/park with the hand brake on and concentrate on the task at hand.
Next driving on a highway and something goes seriously wrong with the transmission. The manual driver puts the car in neutral and coasts to the side of the road. The Auto stops dead in the lane.
Again which is overall the safer vehicle to be in?
/edit: both vehcles are exactly the sem model and make only diff is the transmission.
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SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
But you can.
Certainly models are only available in automatic so if you can see the model number you can figure it out.
supersunbird
Honorary Master
More like putters along barely above stall.
Bad driver, not safe to be in drivers vehicle no matter what type of transmission it is.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
The manual will be the one that bolts forward, not the auto.
It will just calmly set off at a super sedate pace easily caught by most any driver.
The manual popping forward cannot be stopped, by the time it’s over it’s damage is done.
Not that this ever happens with any driver, so it’s completely irreverent to argue your ridiculous points.
As for the highway, what makes you think you can’t put it in neutral as well? It’s literally why Neutral is right next to Drive so that you can easily get to it and why it’s annoyingly to go through all of them to get to reverse.
Ridiculously illogical points all round.
But while we are making them let’s have at it.
Granny is having a heart attack and Skippy who has never driven a car needs to rush her to the hospital.
Manual car in the garage : Skippy is going nowhere, stalls on first attempt.
Automatic : Some bumps and scratches but Skippy gets granny there and she lives.
Which one is more useful?
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
So the BMW M2/M3/M4 is no longer available in SA in a manual version?
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SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
Not sure which ones are and aren’t, just that the vast majority are automatic and many models only in that format.
And of the M models it would be very few of them if any.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Well yes, you can tell the difference even IF you have to wait for the car to pass you to see the badge.
Well according to a car magazine article I read this year, those are the ones still available in SA.
Well according to a car magazine article I read this year, those are the ones still available in SA.
HAL 9000
Honorary Master
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The worst so-called 'automatic' cars are the budget hatchback ones - mostly sourced from India - that have an 'Automated Manual Transmission' (AMT) fitted - which in essence simply removes the clutch pedal from a normal manual 5-speed gearbox & replaces it with an electronic control unit (ECU), usually supplied by Magnetti Marelli, that takes over the engaging / disengaging of the clutch mechanism and the gear selection via either an electronic or hydraulic (pneumatic) servo system.
Some cars, like the various Suzuki models fitted with an AMT, still have a manual gear change 'over-ride' feature that allows you to down-shift / up-shift the gears manually if so desired, according to driving conditions, like going up or down a steep mountain pass like Kloofnek.
Others however, most notably the Renault Kwid 'Easy-R' AMT models (both pre- & post-facelift versions), only have a rotary 3-position gear selector dial for 'Drive - Neutral - Reverse' and NO manual gear selection over-ride capability.
Kwid AMT Pre-face-lift - centre upper dash console mounted gear selector:
Kwid AMT Post-face-lift - centre lower centre console (between front seats) mounted gear selector:
All of the reviews of these AMT cars make mention of the hesitation & sluggish up- & down-shifts, and the 'head-nodding' that results when the AMT finally does change gears.
These are all just a cost-cutting compromise rather than spending extra on actually fitting a 'proper' automatic, whether that be a CVT, a DSG or a conventional torque-converter unit.
So it all boils down to the individual driver preference:
Do you want to 'row your own gears' ALL the time? - get a manual (as long as the brand you are wishing to purchase still gives you that option)
Do you want the convenience of the car changing gears for you, with the option of still doing it yourself if needed (Kwid excepted), but still want a budget economy car? - get an AMT
Do you want the car to change gears for you, without noticing the changes at all and eliminating the 'head-nodding' effect? -get a CVT
Do you want a choice of a multi-gear automatic (usually 7-speed to 10-speed) that still lets you change gears manually if needed, especially when towing trailers? - get a Torque-Converter automatic
Do you want instantaneous performance-orientated gearshifts for those inevitable robot-to-robot 'boy-racer' VRRRRR-PHAAAA drag races, or for sporty track-focused enthusiast driving? - get a DSG
You get what you pay for - the more you are willing to spend - the more choices are available to you.
Some cars, like the various Suzuki models fitted with an AMT, still have a manual gear change 'over-ride' feature that allows you to down-shift / up-shift the gears manually if so desired, according to driving conditions, like going up or down a steep mountain pass like Kloofnek.
Others however, most notably the Renault Kwid 'Easy-R' AMT models (both pre- & post-facelift versions), only have a rotary 3-position gear selector dial for 'Drive - Neutral - Reverse' and NO manual gear selection over-ride capability.
Kwid AMT Pre-face-lift - centre upper dash console mounted gear selector:
Kwid AMT Post-face-lift - centre lower centre console (between front seats) mounted gear selector:
All of the reviews of these AMT cars make mention of the hesitation & sluggish up- & down-shifts, and the 'head-nodding' that results when the AMT finally does change gears.
These are all just a cost-cutting compromise rather than spending extra on actually fitting a 'proper' automatic, whether that be a CVT, a DSG or a conventional torque-converter unit.
So it all boils down to the individual driver preference:
Do you want to 'row your own gears' ALL the time? - get a manual (as long as the brand you are wishing to purchase still gives you that option)
Do you want the convenience of the car changing gears for you, with the option of still doing it yourself if needed (Kwid excepted), but still want a budget economy car? - get an AMT
Do you want the car to change gears for you, without noticing the changes at all and eliminating the 'head-nodding' effect? -get a CVT
Do you want a choice of a multi-gear automatic (usually 7-speed to 10-speed) that still lets you change gears manually if needed, especially when towing trailers? - get a Torque-Converter automatic
Do you want instantaneous performance-orientated gearshifts for those inevitable robot-to-robot 'boy-racer' VRRRRR-PHAAAA drag races, or for sporty track-focused enthusiast driving? - get a DSG
You get what you pay for - the more you are willing to spend - the more choices are available to you.
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Rosaudio
First Officer
I don't think I could drive an automatic car without throwing up.
kripstoe
Expert Member
It's not that simple really. You're not going to put a 10-speed torque-converter setup into a GTI, and you're not going to put a 6/7-speed DSG into a bakkie. Cost equates less to the gearbox options than the type of vehicle which it suits. So, you'd pick to type of vehicle that suits your needs, and then the gearbox would typically support that experience.
kripstoe
Expert Member
Ok? Then don't buy one? In reality, 99.999999999% of people don't give a hoot what type of gearbox you use or dislike.