Manual vs Automatic

[HAL 9000]

It's not that simple really. You're not going to put a 10-speed torque-converter setup into a GTI, and you're not going to put a 6/7-speed DSG into a bakkie. Cost equates less to the gearbox options than the type of vehicle which it suits. So, you'd pick to type of vehicle that suits your needs, and then the gearbox would typically support that experience.

That's what I meant by giving all the options - the transmission choice is usually made by the manufacturers to suit the required characteristics of the vehicle in question, as you mentioned - having a 10-speed auto for a bakkie or a DSG for a GTI means that the power can be utilised effectively, based on the vehicle's performance & requirements.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Well yes, you can tell the difference even IF you have to wait for the car to pass you to see the badge.


Well according to a car magazine article I read this year, those are the ones still available in SA.

Are they the only manuals available in BMW? Only the M-series?

Makes sense and in line with my thoughts.

Figured some of the Bottom dollar cheapies would still be manual.

 

[Geoff.D]

Thanks, Ivan for your comments appreciate the presence of a person who really knows his cars.
My whole point is about these el-cheapo low-end cars with at best a look-alike auto box that just adds complexity to a perfectly good manual transmission but at the expense of driver control ability.

I chose my vehicle based on its purpose first ( an off-road, reasonably comfortable 4 x 4 DC) and then looked at the Auto versions and decided that they were NOT worth the added complexity.

 

[Geoff.D]

Are they the only manuals available in BMW? Only the M-series?

Makes sense and in line with my thoughts.

Figured some of the Bottom dollar cheapies would still be manual.

I can't vouch for the list being complete, as I only follow these things casually and only as a result of trying to understand what other drivers are doing with the vehicles they are driving.

Presumably the latest car mag would be the one to look at to see what are available?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Thanks, Ivan for your comments appreciate the presence of a person who really knows his cars.
My whole point is about these el-cheapo low-end cars with at best a look-alike auto box that just adds complexity to a perfectly good manual transmission but at the expense of driver control ability.

I chose my vehicle based on its purpose first ( an off-road, reasonably comfortable 4 x 4 DC) and then looked at the Auto versions and decided that they were NOT worth the added complexity.

No, you flip flopped to that point of view after being challenged.

At the beginning all automatics were bad when BMW’s couldn’t go up hills etc.

Then you back pedalled your small car automatics being ****.

Just own your crap.

 

[Craig_]

Scenario. Two cars standing at a traffic light, one manual, one auto.
Both are waiting for the light to change.
The manual driver is riding the clutch, the other is holding the brake pedal down.
Both lose concentration and their foots slips.
The manual lurges forward and stalls.
The auto takes off like horse bolting. The auto anti-stall kicks in to prevent the car from stalling.

Which is the safer vehicle to be in?

How can both situations be prevented? Both place their vehicles in neutral/park with the hand brake on and concentrate on the task at hand.

Next driving on a highway and something goes seriously wrong with the transmission. The manual driver puts the car in neutral and coasts to the side of the road. The Auto stops dead in the lane.
Again which is overall the safer vehicle to be in?


/edit: both vehcles are exactly the sem model and make only diff is the transmission.

Newer models has auto hold, once I come to a stop I leave the brake pedal and the car won't move until I touch the accelerator.

You might know a lot about cars, but you know very little about modern automatic cars. And my car is a previous generation model so it's not even new.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Newer models has auto hold, once I come to a stop I leave the brake pedal and the car won't move until I touch the accelerator.

You might know a lot about cars, but you know very little about modern automatic cars. And my car is a previous generation model so it's not even new.

The fact that he talks about a horse bolting illustrates it’s not even just a modern automatic he knows very little of.

 

[Craig_]

The fact that he talks about a horse bolting illustrates it’s not even just a modern automatic he knows very little of.

That as well, the older ones just start creeping forward. We have two cars, a small manual car and a bigger auto car. I don't mind driving either but the auto is just so must nicer in crap traffic.

 

[Splinter]

Scenario. Two cars standing at a traffic light, one manual, one auto.
Both are waiting for the light to change.
The manual driver is riding the clutch, the other is holding the brake pedal down.
Both lose concentration and their foots slips.
The manual lurges forward and stalls.
The auto takes off like horse bolting. The auto anti-stall kicks in to prevent the car from stalling.

You keep on making up nonsense scenarios. Auto's do not do this when you take your foot off the brake.

 

[asshat99]

At this point, I am not even sure this guy has driven a car. I would say my manual is far more likely to lurch forward into something due to a foot slip than my auto.

Counter Ford's garbage DCT with countless stories of clutches being burnt out by novices.

Driving engagement is not relevant to 90 percent of drivers. It is impossible to achieve with 99 percent of cars (which are designed to be mommy mobile shopping carts). Just accept most cars are appliances.

 

[SauRoNZA]

At this point, I am not even sure this guy has driven a car. I would say my manual is far more likely to lurch forward into something due to a foot slip than my auto.

Counter Ford's garbage DCT with countless stories of clutches being burnt out by novices.

Driving engagement is not relevant to 90 percent of drivers. It is impossible to achieve with 99 percent of cars (which are designed to be mommy mobile shopping carts). Just accept most cars are appliances.

Yeah Ford being garbage is really the only relevant part to the arguments.

Doesn't mean it applies to everything else.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

Newer models has auto hold, once I come to a stop I leave the brake pedal and the car won't move until I touch the accelerator.

That must usually be switched on. By default auto hold is off.

I've not driven one automatic though that bolts forward once you slip off the brake

Depending on the manual car, slip off the clutch and you guruanteed to probably slightly knock into the car infront of you. Then again, this probably only happens to peeps that are used to auto. I always disengage and chill in neutral while at a robot.

 

[supersunbird]

He is probably basing his bolting auto experience on some 3 speed Valiant from 19prehistoric experience.

 

[Adenoid Hynkel]

He is probably basing his bolting auto experience on some 3 speed Valiant from 19prehistoric experience.

My 98 Jeep XJ, I wish that thing would actually move faster once off the brake. Always have to use throttle to move in bumper to bumper traffic. Fuel guzzling galore. That being said, that auto box is smooth as butter, even after 250k. Strong as an OX.

 

[Geoff.D]

No, you flip flopped to that point of view after being challenged.

At the beginning all automatics were bad when BMW’s couldn’t go up hills etc.

Then you back pedalled your small car automatics being ****.

Just own your crap.

No, I started my comments about small cars with crap automatic transmissions. I then illustrated that even upmarket auto BMWs in the hands of incompetent drivers are just as bad.

Read the whole thread. And then you came along in defence of "automatics" with all sorts of stories about fuel economy, safety etc.
I have not once backpedalled. My view stands. the low-end low power cars with "automatic transmissions" are a curse on the roads. And even upmarket automatics in the hands of incompetent drivers are also.

 

[asshat99]

I own a car with a manual transmission that many motoring 'journalists' and publications (for what that is worth ) have described as the best manual transmission ever fitted to a car. This is in an engaging driver centric car. The MT is excellent. And fun.

I will still tell you that a MT has no place for 99 % of drivers in 99 % of cars in 99% of situations. Almost invariably, my driving would be easier, better executed, more efficient and more effective with a top quality automatic or DCT. It can be fun - but not many people have cars that would allow an MT to be fun (sorry).

MT's will also be a hindrance to more advanced cars and automation. For all but a handful of cars that don't go to Woolworths ever, it is time to move on.

 

[supersunbird]

No, I started my comments about small cars with crap automatic transmissions. I then illustrated that even upmarket auto BMWs in the hands of incompetent drivers are just as bad.

Read the whole thread. And then you came along in defence of "automatics" with all sorts of stories about fuel economy, safety etc.
I have not once backpedalled. My view stands. the low-end low power cars with "automatic transmissions" are a curse on the roads. And even upmarket automatics in the hands of incompetent drivers are also.

So you still contend that an automatic will take off like horse bolting if your foot slips off the brake pedal? I will see if I can make a video this weekend to disprove your point, a bit under the weather with sinus now.

 

[asshat99]

No, I started my comments about small cars with crap automatic transmissions. I then illustrated that even upmarket auto BMWs in the hands of incompetent drivers are just as bad.

Read the whole thread. And then you came along in defence of "automatics" with all sorts of stories about fuel economy, safety etc.
I have not once backpedalled. My view stands. the low-end low power cars with "automatic transmissions" are a curse on the roads. And even upmarket automatics in the hands of incompetent drivers are also.

Nice back track. What can an 'incompetent' auto BMW driver who is flooring it and 'going crazy' do to prevent himself from over taking your old bakkie by maintaining speed? What skill is there that he is somehow missing? You said he was flooring it. Was he pulling the handbrake (nope - car won't let you do that)? Standing on the brake pedal at the same time (nope - car won't let you do that)? What super 'ware petrol kop' skill is this incompetent BMW driver missing? What is he doing wrong? What competence do you need to maintain speed on that little slope?

Small manuals are a curse. We see the Vivos and old bakkies and the traffic jams they cause.

Honestly, this is just cringy. As are your BMW racing stories.

 

[ShaunSA]

No, I started my comments about small cars with crap automatic transmissions. I then illustrated that even upmarket auto BMWs in the hands of incompetent drivers are just as bad.

Read the whole thread. And then you came along in defence of "automatics" with all sorts of stories about fuel economy, safety etc.
I have not once backpedalled. My view stands. the low-end low power cars with "automatic transmissions" are a curse on the roads. And even upmarket automatics in the hands of incompetent drivers are also.

Post #80

Auto cars are and will always be a curse on the roads.

 

[Geoff.D]

The point is a "MT" will lurch forward and die within a meter. The Auto will take off and keep going --- The driver has to react. I will grant you that I was exaggerating a little bit. But then, there are quite a few examples around from all over the world about what happens when an AT simply does its own thing.