Mbeki protects Mugabe - US

sanctions for what? the only thing lost is SA's last bit of credibility in the western world, but who cares, our leaders prefer mingling with china, iran, burma anyway
 
Maybe just sanction Tbone from making any further stupid statements. Theres one I would vote for.
 
timgaul said:
Maybe just sanction Tbone from making any further stupid statements. Theres one I would vote for.
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South Africa's stance at the UN continues to be an embarrassment to any thinking South African. Our shielding of Zim will eventually cost us our place at the table of civilized nations.
 
icyrus said:
South Africa's stance at the UN continues to be an embarrassment to any thinking South African. Our shielding of Zim will eventually cost us our place at the table of civilized nations.
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As I mentioned in another thread on the same topic, sanctions are not necessarily the best move.
 
nauseous_monkey said:
As I mentioned in another thread on the same topic, sanctions are not necessarily the best move.
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What are the alternatives? The AU and that retard mbeki are happy to do nothing so please don't say mediation.

Sanctions would cut off the supplies that bob uses to keep the populace under control. Without that it would really just be a matter of time.

But now South Africa and China can carry on providing aid and propping up this mad man and making us an embarrassment and global pariah.
 
icyrus said:
What are the alternatives? The AU and that retard mbeki are happy to do nothing so please don't say mediation.

Sanctions would cut off the supplies that bob uses to keep the populace under control. Without that it would really just be a matter of time.

But now South Africa and China can carry on providing aid and propping up this mad man and making us an embarrassment and global pariah.
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Depends what you want accomplish.

1.) Help the Zims - Sanctions don't help Zims, in fact it might make things worst

2.) Get Rid of Bob - Sanctions might help, or make things worst (Germany scenario)

Mediation/Negotiation and slow tactical diplomacy. The JFK way.
 
nauseous_monkey said:
Depends what you want accomplish.

1.) Help the Zims - Sanctions don't help Zims, in fact it might make things worst
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It might make things better. It worked for South Africa - which adds the juicy extra layer of hypocrisy to South Africa's ridiculous stance in this issue, don't you think?

nauseous_monkey said:
2.) Get Rid of Bob - Sanctions might help, or make things worst (Germany scenario)
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Germany? Now that is a fevered dream.

nauseous_monkey said:
Mediation/Negotiation and slow tactical diplomacy. The JFK way.
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The problem with that is you need someone competent to do the mediation/negotiating and you need to have a desire for change. South Africa ticks neither of those boxes.
 
Agree with the US. The ANC's historic connection with Mugabe are clouding their judgment, or maybe they are scared Mugabe will reveal some of their dirty secrets.

The proposed sanctions only related to Mugabe and some of his thugs, it won't hurt the other Zims. I am deeply disappointed with Russia, China decision is understandable, a disjointed Zimbabwe will only work in their favor.
 
They keep saying the sanctions would have disrupted talks in Zimbabwe. They've been talking for three years, hasn't resolved much. I'm not a supporter of the US trying to police the world but Zimbabwe may be an exception. In the current state it's in, I really don't see how sanctions would make it any worse.
 
dogmeat said:
They keep saying the sanctions would have disrupted talks in Zimbabwe. They've been talking for three years, hasn't resolved much. I'm not a supporter of the US trying to police the world but Zimbabwe may be an exception. In the current state it's in, I really don't see how sanctions would make it any worse.
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Mugabe has been rigging elections and running Zim into the ground for the last 10 years at least. The AU and mbeki's bleating about "talks" in Zim is nothing more than a dodge to keep the status quo and do nothing.

Also, you must understand that America has no direct interest in this mess but they will do whatever England asks of them.
 
boramk said:
Whats with the bold?
And sanctions against us will be bad, and not as easy you imply
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Ignore onebrickshort, he's just trolling with inflammatory rhetoric again. Sanctions could indeed be tough on us, given our economy is still relatively fragile and millions of people live so close to 'the breadline'.
 
mbeki will be gone soon and then Zuma can call the public shots about policy. That should be another great time ahead...
 
nauseous_monkey said:
As I mentioned in another thread on the same topic, sanctions are not necessarily the best move.
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From what I have read about the proposed sanctions they will be against top Zanu bra's and their families. So I doubt the poor will suffer from these sanction.

SA votes against UN sanctions on Zanu-PF

Security Council resolution fails after China and Russia use veto.

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Russia and China vetoed on Friday a Western-backed U.N. Security Council resolution to impose sanctions on Zimbabwe for holding a violent presidential poll that was boycotted by the opposition candidate.

The resolution would have imposed an arms embargo on the southern African country and financial and travel restrictions on President Robert Mugabe and 13 other officials.
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http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentReader.aspx?Item=5_879267074
 
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I agree with sanctions against us. Its not like our government isn't begging for them. Would suck for us, but I mean what do we expect if our majority supports sobs..
 
I think sanctions might in their idiotic way, be good for us.

It might lead to us pulling our fingers out our butts and get industry going because we would have to make do without some imports, and this could lead to a bit of extra job creation but the downsides outweigh this quite sharply.
 
icyrus said:
Mugabe has been rigging elections and running Zim into the ground for the last 10 years at least. The AU and mbeki's bleating about "talks" in Zim is nothing more than a dodge to keep the status quo and do nothing.

Also, you must understand that America has no direct interest in this mess but they will do whatever England asks of them.
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Which makes we worry even more about this big club of politicians. What interest does Mbeki have protecting Mugabe? We're certainly not gaining anything financially from it, and it can hardly be said it's keeping peace. MDC members are just being murdered outright now.

I know America don't have any interest in Zim. Nothing to gain from it but they can apply pressure in order to force some sort of reconciliation within the government.

I still hold to the idea that sanctions would have done more good than harm.
 
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