meanwhile, in traffic...

Fazda said:
Oh God, don't come to me with that crap.

There are certain things that SA drivers are doing and killing people in the process.

If confiscating a phone saves one life then it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Then we need to start censoring the Internet too. If it leads to saving one child then it's worth it. Viva consistently applied logic viva!
 
porchrat said:
Then we need to start censoring the Internet too. If it leads to saving one child then it's worth it. Viva consistently applied logic viva!
Click to expand...

Inconsistent? Where? This law doesn't prevent you having a phone, or prevent you driving. It prevents you doing both at once. I'm pretty sure there are also laws against kiddie porn anyway so your argument is invalid.
 
Sinbad said:
Inconsistent? Where?
Click to expand...
Oh so you are in support of Internet censorship then. No worries then the logic is applied consistently.

We can suspend the rights of the many if it protects one person. This is the logic employed by Fazda and this is the same logic used to advocate Internet censorship.


This law doesn't prevent you having a phone, or prevent you driving. It prevents you doing both at once. I'm pretty sure there are also laws against kiddie porn anyway so your argument is invalid.
Click to expand...
There are already laws against driving with a cellphone too. I don't see your point.
 
porchrat said:
Oh so you are in support of Internet censorship then. No worries then the logic is applied consistently.

We can suspend the rights of the many if it protects one person. This is the logic employed by Fazda and this is the same logic used to advocate Internet censorship.



There are already laws against driving with a cellphone too. I don't see your point.
Click to expand...

I don't see yours either ;)
You're arguing that enforcement of a law takes away the perpetrator's rights?
Also, I am fully in support of censorship of child porn. You aren't?
 
Bollocks again.

Censorship has nothing to do with it and you know that.

If you are idiotic enough to drive around nattering to your mates, or, God forbid, texting them - you don't deserve to either own a phone or drive a car - you're a bloody danger to others , and I don't need your type polluting our roads with your presence.
 
Sinbad said:
I don't see yours either ;)
You're arguing that enforcement of a law takes away the perpetrator's rights?
Also, I am fully in support of censorship of child porn. You aren't?
Click to expand...
I never said censorship of child porn I said Internet censorship with no judicial oversight. You have no idea what they are censoring at that point.

The comparison works for me because there is no judicial oversight with regards to the confiscation of the cellphone (you don't get your day in court, you are judged guilty by the police officer and your phone is taken from you as punishment, name 1 crime in this country for which you are punished before you admit guilt or have your day in court).
 
Oh please Porchrat :rolleyes:

If you don't talk or text on your phone while driving, then they won't confiscate your phone! Alternatively buy a hands free kit, then you may chat all you want.

You are clutching at straws.
 
One thing I agree with porchrat about, though, is the competence/corruption level of the average metro cop. This does present a problem.
 
porchrat said:
The comparison works for me because there is no judicial oversight with regards to the confiscation of the cellphone (you don't get your day in court, you are judged guilty by the police officer and your phone is taken from you as punishment, name 1 crime in this country for which you are punished before you admit guilt or have your day in court).
Click to expand...

Your cars gets impounded when illegally parked. You do not get informed, get a day in court, nada.
So now what? Your argument is completely invalid again...
 
Archer said:
Your cars gets impounded when illegally parked. You do not get informed, get a day in court, nada.
So now what? Your argument is completely invalid again...
Click to expand...
Taken away to maintain flow of traffic and whatnot. NOT as punishment. This has been explained to you 3 times now.
 
porchrat said:
Taken away to maintain flow of traffic and whatnot. NOT as punishment. This has been explained to you 3 times now.
Click to expand...

Phone taken away to prevent you causing an accident for the next 24 hours ...?
 
porchrat said:
Taken away to maintain flow of traffic and whatnot (safety - parked in front of fire hydrant for example). NOT as punishment. This has been explained to you 3 times now.
Click to expand...

The precedant is there. Which is what you asked for. PS - are you saying not having your car is not a punishment (edit - if it was not for punishment it would simply be moved where you could still get to it, not impounded)? Or are you saying that trying to get people to stop using their cells while driving is not for safety.
(I added the bold bit)

porchrat said:
Punishing someone for something they haven't done yet and may in fact not do. Now THAT is Orwellian.
Click to expand...

So by that reasoning, again, I'll bring up car brakes (you flat out ignored my earlier post with a similar point). If you have no brakes (making your vehicle unsafe to drive) you have not yet had an accident. And yet, if you are found with this unroadworthy vehicle, you get punished in some form. So are you also going to argue that that law be dropped, since you have not yet had a major accident, and you are therefore being punished for a future crime?
 
Last edited:
porchrat said:
I never said censorship of child porn I said Internet censorship with no judicial oversight. You have no idea what they are censoring at that point.

The comparison works for me because there is no judicial oversight with regards to the confiscation of the cellphone (you don't get your day in court, you are judged guilty by the police officer and your phone is taken from you as punishment, name 1 crime in this country for which you are punished before you admit guilt or have your day in court).
Click to expand...

Drawing the president nude.
 
eltherza said:
Drawing the president nude.
Click to expand...
That too.

The artist may have committed a crime we need to confiscate the painting. Also confiscate his art supplies as he may break the law again in the next 24 hours.

If just one person is saved from harm then it's worth it. :p
 
Ah - I see that Archer is correct...you do ignore his questions....perhaps because they make sense and you don't like that?
 
Archer said:
The precedant is there. Which is what you asked for. PS - are you saying not having your car is not a punishment (edit - if it was not for punishment it would simply be moved where you could still get to it, not impounded)? Or are you saying that trying to get people to stop using their cells while driving is not for safety.
(I added the bold bit)
Click to expand...
I see you added the bold bit. Perfectly reasonable. Asking that the cops move it somewhere else is impractical and potentially unfair. There may be nowhere nearby to move it to and in that case the owner would not be able to find his/her vehicle. So "go to the impound and get it" is the default. We need to treat everyone equally and so everyone's car gets treated in the same manner - impound.


So by that reasoning, again, I'll bring up car brakes (you flat out ignored my earlier post with a similar point).
Click to expand...
I don't think I saw it. My apologies I haven't been reading every single post in this thread. Nice assumption though.


If you have no brakes (making your vehicle unsafe to drive) you have not yet had an accident. And yet, if you are found with this unroadworthy vehicle, you get punished in some form. So are you also going to argue that that law be dropped, since you have not yet had a major accident, and you are therefore being punished for a future crime?
Click to expand...
Note that a cellphone that is no longer involved in a conversation is NOT unsafe. You can't magically fix the brakes on your car by hitting the "drop call" button but you can do that with a cellphone. Comparison invalid.
 
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