Medical aid should be compulsory

To xrapidx : and here is an for instance: Joe Soap decides at 25 to take out a medical aid, at 28 gets married at 30 has first kid, at 41 has second kid. What is a medical aid for a family of 4 full cover / month. R 6K He pays while he has work,(total investment to date average R 4K/m for 16 years = R48 000 plus compound interest R 60 000.00 +/-) then tun..tun..tun... a recession hits, he looses his job, he cannot pay his medical aid, he looses his policy.... the stress brings on a heart attack - he is screwed! He dies. His family is destitute.

Life sends us curve balls some we can avoid some not. Enjoy the moments and let the crisis handle themselves. I will not live my life in fear.
 
from iol.

relying on state medical care is insane if you have the option to avoid it.

Thats one very messed up story. They should trace and fire every person who answered the phone. Poor kid. :mad:
 
To xrapidx : and here is an for instance: Joe Soap decides at 25 to take out a medical aid, at 28 gets married at 30 has first kid, at 41 has second kid. What is a medical aid for a family of 4 full cover / month. R 6K He pays while he has work,(total investment to date average R 4K/m for 16 years = R48 000 plus compound interest R 60 000.00 +/-) then tun..tun..tun... a recession hits, the stress brings on a heart attack. He gets quality care and makes a full recovery, enjoying his family for another 30 years.

Joe's cousin doesn't take medical aid, decides to take life one day at a time and let the crisis handle itself.
He's shot by a hijacker and left quadriplegic. He is unable to work to pay off the million rand bill from his 6 months in ICU... He's even more screwed.


Your health is the ONLY thing you really own! Can you really afford to risk it?
 
Thats one very messed up story. They should trace and fire every person who answered the phone. Poor kid. :mad:

Chrissy I agree 100%.

Sadly, things like this are NOT isolated incidents, which is why it's really not an option to CHOOSE not to have a decent medical aid.
Healthcare in SA has plenty of dedicated professionals who work stupid hours for the love of their work and the satisfaction of their job. The stupid hours themselves are a problem - would you trust someone coming off the tail end of a 24 hour shift in ER to make critical lifesaving decisions?

Problem is, there's also LOADS of people who are nurses or whatever because it's a job. It means no more to them than a paycheck, and they have NO empathy or sympathy.

ps, I don't work for a medical aid company in case anyone was wondering.
 
To xrapidx : and here is an for instance: Joe Soap decides at 25 to take out a medical aid, at 28 gets married at 30 has first kid, at 41 has second kid. What is a medical aid for a family of 4 full cover / month. R 6K He pays while he has work,(total investment to date average R 4K/m for 16 years = R48 000 plus compound interest R 60 000.00 +/-) then tun..tun..tun... a recession hits, he looses his job, he cannot pay his medical aid, he looses his policy.... the stress brings on a heart attack - he is screwed! He dies. His family is destitute.

Life sends us curve balls some we can avoid some not. Enjoy the moments and let the crisis handle themselves. I will not live my life in fear.

Your risk ;) I won't do it - and I won't do it to the ones I love.
 
Guys with the exception of Discovery you know medical aids are nonprofit organisations? The young and healthy subsidize the old and sickly, the only reason medical aid exists in this country is because of the state medical care. R2 million would never cover that one guys operation and future medical needs, what do you think the solution is...... it is an insurance you pay in case of emergencies and this will be one of the first steps toward implementing the NHI.
 
In the USA, around 50% (IIRC) of personal bankruptions are due to illness, despite the people having medical insurance.

Medical insurance, no matter what form it takes, is not able to provide a broad and general solution to technology outstripping our capacity to pay for it. The alternative is to accept personal responsibility for our health and work within that paradigm. Are we willing to do that as long as we have a choice or will we have to be forced into it? We have outsourced even the most trivial aspects of our health care to the so-called experts and specialists.
We also need to accept that people die, some of them sooner than others. Every family member needs to be clear about, and inform others, to what extent life-prolonging measures should be applied when something disastruous happens.

Most discussions about NHI do not even touch on these topics and thus the options considered are just like plugging holes in an ever increasingly leaking dam.
 
Another posts with a number of disturbing opinions and statements that have no logic or real understanding behind them.

On commercial "greed": There is no such things as greed in a free market. Its quite simple to explain why. If a producer wants more money for what he is selling, a lot of you people moan about the producer being greedy. But you seem to forget that when exchange takes place there are 2 or more parties to the exchange and EVERY party is giving something up in exchange for something else.

The producer simply wants more for whatever he is giving up, in this case, he wants more money for his product. If you as the consumer wants something to be cheaper, then YOU WANT MORE for whatever you are giving up, in this case more product for your money.

Essentially if you view the producer as being greedy for wanting to charge more, then the consumer is equally as greedy for wanting things to be cheaper. Fundemental principle that people seem to have forgotten.

Medical aid should NOT be compulsory for working people. This just means that medical aids have to "fight" less for consumer money (Since they get some of it by law), which results in less competition and poorer products/services provided by the medical aids. Why would they care what consumers really want if consumers have no choice but to pay em? What are consumers gonna do? Refuse to pay them and risk going to jail? That is absurd.

Also if the employers provide medical aid, it reduces the choices of employees. The reason why employers started to pay for medical was because of world war 2. In the US during the war, things were very scarce. As a method of rationing things, by law salaries were capped at a certain limit. This meant that businesses could not compete to attract the best labour on price/salary, so they had to offer other benefits to distinguish themselves from their competitors, such as paying for medical aid etc.

However, if it is mandatory, then you as the consumer DO NOT HAVE THE CHOICE not to use medical aid. It is taken away from you. So, economically, your needs are not satisfied in the best manner, and thus you are arguably worse off.

Remember, economically, the better our individual wants and desires as consumers are satisfied (As determined by the individual in question), the "wealthier" we are if I can use such a term.

Also think of the ethical issue. I am refusing to pay someone for a service I might not want, and you want to stick me in jail for this? Do you guys work for the medical aids? Jees, so much for freedom of choice and association.

On capping rates: You cannot CAP rates. This policy will result in a reduction in supply as it does for every other industry/product (Economic causality at work). Meaning, you will start getting "less" or a poorer service for your money. Why would someone bother helping you and fixing your problems, providing more options when he can't charge more or cover costs?

If you want to reduce costs and increase quality, you need to increase supply and competition.

Not only with regards to medical aids but also with regards to doctors/equipment etc. Does a law prohibiting FOREIGN nurses/doctors from working in SA help alleviate our problems? No. Well we do have similar laws in place. They are designed to "protect" the jobs of SA doctors/nurses from foreigners who are willing to work for less, the unfortunate reality is it also reduces the supply of doctors, so it increases the costs for consumers, it reduces competition in SA so it reduces the quality of medical care provided and the consumers/majority get shafted.

If you want to see changes you have to deregulate the market. Prices only come down when SUPPLY increases!!! Making things "cheaper" through subsidisation will result in INCREASING DEMAND, that will just overburden the system even more.

PS: Remember health care is not a legitimate right as it cannot be enforced without resorting to theft or slavery.
 
Ironically, there's an article in the citizen about state hospitals today.
It's written tongue in cheek, but it's not fictional.

http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=129487,1,22

While driving his bakkie he suffered a blackout, and when coming to found himself wedged under the vehicle that had rolled down a steep embankment. He lay there for two hours before being rescued and driven in an ambulance to Hell Hole Hospital.

The nightmare begins. With excruciating pain he lay in a passage for five hours before being wheeled into a proper ward.

The worst part was the evident “don’t care” attitude shown by the matron, head sister and nurses. In fairness, he qualifies his criticism by admitting the institution’s lack of staff to cope with the hundreds of patients queuing 24/7.

“They’ve got a monstrous task, so they can be excused for treating a lone whitey with less sympathy,” he said.

He bypasses the day-to-day hiccoughs that occurred – like losing his X-rays at a crucial time, and staffers showing little concern that he had to wait another day before new ones were done – but rather dwells on the more Scrubs-like incidents initiated by his ward mates.

It started with the apparent scarcity of bedpans; whenever there was a need for one, it took ages before a nurse pitched. So they became more vociferous by shouting “number one” when that need arose, or “number two” when it is needed.

When these didn’t have the desired results they chanted “number three – too late”, indicating a soiled bed.
 
Guys with the exception of Discovery you know medical aids are nonprofit organisations? The young and healthy subsidize the old and sickly, the only reason medical aid exists in this country is because of the state medical care. R2 million would never cover that one guys operation and future medical needs, what do you think the solution is...... it is an insurance you pay in case of emergencies and this will be one of the first steps toward implementing the NHI.

Ok, so by that logic the CEOs in those med-aids should make scraps as a wage. Anyone care to dig up dirt on them?
 
Guys with the exception of Discovery you know medical aids are nonprofit organisations? ...

That isnt quite correct. All Medical Aid funds are non-profit, even the Discovery Medical Aid. However, the adminstrators of Discovery who happen to have a similar name are not non-profit. Dont confuse the adminstrator with the actual Medical Aid fund
 
Another posts with a number of disturbing opinions and statements that have no logic or real understanding behind them.

On commercial "greed": There is no such things as greed in a free market. Its quite simple to explain why. If a producer wants more money for what he is selling, a lot of you people moan about the producer being greedy. But you seem to forget that when exchange takes place there are 2 or more parties to the exchange and EVERY party is giving something up in exchange for something else.
.

This only works for discrentionary spending and where consumer choice is possible. In the South African Medical Aid industry its very difficult to change funds, removing the "free" from this market, especially for people already on chronic medication. They are basically stuck where they are.

Most industries have barriers to entry making their markets not free at all. Exclusive supplier deals and such. A market is only truly free if its easy for new competitors to enter the market in response to the existing producers screwing up.
 
That isnt quite correct. All Medical Aid funds are non-profit, even the Discovery Medical Aid. However, the adminstrators of Discovery who happen to have a similar name are not non-profit. Dont confuse the adminstrator with the actual Medical Aid fund

Yes, but the administrators ask for a fee (15% i think), not whatever is left over like in Discovery.
 
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100603044138966C411377

This is does not make sense to me. The industry is struggling and they want to cover more people.
Shouldn't they increase premiums for those who are already covered?
If one does not want medical cover I don't see why they should be forced to get one...we already pay taxes and should be covered by gvt.
Noo, the premiums are already crazy?
And I seriously do not want to be treated or even go for an eye-test sponsored by the government if I can afford to pay for medical aid. However, I think this plea to make medical aid membership compulsory is not going to work in South Africa. Trying to find taxpayers is already an issue. And I don't think it should be compulsory anyway. Taxes should rather be implemented in a better way. But this comes from a disgruntled medical aid membership payer as well as a tax payer so I just feel screwed either way..
 
Yes, but the administrators ask for a fee (15% i think), not whatever is left over like in Discovery.

Yes. And the admin fee is how the administrator makes money. The administrator provides services, such as providing the IT systems etc. and charges the scheme for this by way of the fee.

Look on the website http://www.medicalschemes.com/consumer_assistance/regschemes.aspx , Discovery is a registered medical aid and therefore subject to the same regulations as the others.

The other schemes are also administered by administrators

EDIT: if you go the wesite and click on the link for Discovery Health Medical Scheme, another window will popup and you will see that the administrator is named as Discovery Health (Pty) Ltd
 
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This only works for discrentionary spending and where consumer choice is possible. In the South African Medical Aid industry its very difficult to change funds, removing the "free" from this market, especially for people already on chronic medication. They are basically stuck where they are.

Most industries have barriers to entry making their markets not free at all. Exclusive supplier deals and such. A market is only truly free if its easy for new competitors to enter the market in response to the existing producers screwing up.

So again, the point is over-regulation is not benefit. I believe that is my opinion anyways...besides the bit you quoted doesn't match your response.

As for the fact that we "need" medical aid. There is always a choice, sure the choice either get medical aid or get sick and die, which to some might not be a choice...but it still is. People get sick, people die, that is a reality of life. That's nature. Medical aids aren't a product of nature.
 
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Tell that Discovery CEO to publish his annual income then complain about losing profits.

Discovery is an American health insurance, anyone watched Sicko? They have the worst medical schemes in the world!!!

Why should we subject ourselves to health insurance? With car insurance if your car breaks they fix it, if its written off chances are you'll get enough to buy a new car. With health insurance you only get one life, it breaks you can fix it, if its written off you dead!!
 
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The simple reason for Medical Aid is the high cost of Medical care. If this can be brought down there would not be a need for expensive Medical Aid.

The Government can take action to promote generic medicines and improve the state of Government hospitals, especially since they want to move towards a National Health Insurance scheme. Look at Cuba, which has one of the best medical care programs in the world. If Cuba can do it, surely SA with better resource should be able to do it as well. I think its just a matter of will.
 
Most employers already force their employees to join both the medical scheme and provident fund. This is usually written into your employment contract - it's to their benefit at the end of the day and there is nothing you can do about it short of taking legal action against your employer, which I'm quite sure you'd lose...
 
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