Mega 100WR firmware

[rbarryza]

I got the Telkom Mega 100WR with my self install option. I see 2C Telecoms supplies the thing to Telkom. I've looked on their website, and I can find a link to download the firmware for the modem, but nothing pointing to the source code. As this modem runs linux, they are required by the GPL to provide the source code. I'm sure it runs linux, because I managed to telnet in to it:

Linux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (felix@rdfwdev1) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #1 Fri Aug 18 10:49:37 SGT 2006

Anyone from 2C Telecoms like to comment?

 

[SecretCode]

As this modem runs linux, they are required by the GPL to provide the source code.

I'd be interested to know if that's true. Obviously the linux distribution they use, any other GPL'd packages they use, and any modifications they make to these, must be available in source. But my reading of the GPL is if GPL code and additional code can be clearly separated (bits of firmware they write as separate programs), the additional code is not subject to it. Even if it was developed and compiled with GPL programming tools and compilers (this point is explicitly stated in http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html).

I'm just not sure how 'independent and separate works in themselves' is interpreted when you sell a piece of hardware that has some GPL software in it, and some other software.

Your claim would be equivalent to saying that no one could sell a PC preloaded with Linux and a commercial package.

But forgetting all that , I see that Netgear make firmware source available and it looks like ASUS, USRobotics and others do too. Possibly even Linksys.

It seems like a reasonable request.

 

[rbarryza]

Your claim would be equivalent to saying that no one could sell a PC preloaded with Linux and a commercial package.

No, it just means they have to make the source code available. So if someone sells a PC with Ubuntu on it, all they need to tell you is that it runs Ubuntu, and you can find Ubuntu's source on their (Ubuntu's) website. If you modify Ubuntu and then sell it, you have to make the modification's source available somewhere yourself. Same here, 2C Telecoms either have to give a link to the source (if they didn't modify at all), or give a link of the original, plus the modifications they made on their site. Linksys makes their source code available because the GPL forces them to.

Wikipedia explains it well:

The first problem was that distributors may publish binaries only - executable, but not readable or modifiable by humans. To prevent this, GPLv1 said that any vendor distributing binaries must make the human readable source code available too under the same licensing terms.

 

[rbarryza]

Another place that explains it well is gpl-violations.org.

 

[SecretCode]

No, it just means they have to make the source code available. So if someone sells a PC with Ubuntu on it, all they need to tell you is that it runs Ubuntu, and you can find Ubuntu's source on their (Ubuntu's) website. If you modify Ubuntu and then sell it, you have to make the modification's source available somewhere yourself.

I agree but that wasn't quite my point. If I develop a commercial (meaning commercial or completely private source, not open source) package that runs on Linux, I am not bound to issue it under the GPL - unless it is a modification of Linux source. Running on the same box, using GPL compilers etc, does not automatically make a given package GPL. You agree with me there?

Same here, 2C Telecoms either have to give a link to the source (if they didn't modify at all), or give a link of the original, plus the modifications they made on their site.

Yes, if they issued it with a GPL licence, or if it's subject to GPL even without them issuing the licence. But that is the grey area. Is firmware in an appliance one inseparable chunk (and therefore subject to GPL) or is it GPL code plus some 'independent and separate works in themselves' (to use the language of the GPL?

Of course, they could supply the source anyway, if they are just helpful and cooperative suppliers! As you said in post #1, Anyone from 2C Telecoms like to comment?

 

[rbarryza]

I agree but that wasn't quite my point. If I develop a commercial (meaning commercial or completely private source, not open source) package that runs on Linux, I am not bound to issue it under the GPL - unless it is a modification of Linux source. Running on the same box, using GPL compilers etc, does not automatically make a given package GPL. You agree with me there?

Yip, complete agreement. But if you sell linux (or any GPL app) as part of your application or appliance, you have to at least make the source for the apps originally under GPL available.

Yes, if they issued it with a GPL license, or if it's subject to GPL even without them issuing the licence. But that is the grey area. Is firmware in an appliance one inseparable chunk (and therefore subject to GPL) or is it GPL code plus some 'independent and separate works in themselves' (to use the language of the GPL?

No, the firmware is made up of different apps (linux kernel, BusyBox, etc). GPL applies to each application separately if the developer distributed it under GPL. If you use GPL code in your app (ie a GPL library), it comes down to how you link to it (not he issue here). So at least the linux kernel and BusyBox that are on the modem have GPL licenses, and they should therefore make that source available (a link to the original distributor should be enough, IF they made no mods). I'm guessing they made a few mods though, to customize it for the hardware and Telkom's network.

Of course, they could supply the source anyway, if they are just helpful and cooperative suppliers! As you said in post #1, Anyone from 2C Telecoms like to comment?

True, but my point is that they HAVE to do it, even if they're not nice and cooperative The moment they chose to sell GPL applications, they bought into the GPL.

 

[rbarryza]

I have now unsuccessfully tried 2 times to get this info from them Called the helpline (answer was evasive "my manager will contact you if he decides you can have it") and mailed the info@2ctelecoms address (no response). I've now sent an email to the directors:

I recently acquired the Mega 100WR ADSL modem from Telkom. I see that it runs linux, and some other GPL applications (BusyBox as an example). Could you please provide me with a link to the source for all the GPL applications on the modem, as I don't see them on the installation CD I received with the modem?

This is now my third attempt to get this information, after calling the helpline number as well as sending an email to [email protected], both without success. I'd like to remind you that the GPL requires your company to make the source available, and not providing this is a violation of the license.

Next step would be to inform the right people to start legal action I guess.

 

[milomak]

You might also try contacting Aztech. The Mega 100WR seems to be the Aztech DSL600EW. The firmware though is specific to Telkom.

 

[2C Telecoms]

Hi all posters and those following this posting....

I have been out of the office for quite some time, and nobody thought to monitor the forums, so I apologize that there has been no response to these postings ... this is also why Rbarryza has not been getting suitable responses to his requests.... its not everyone around here that understands what goes on at that level in the router, and most don’t even know what GPL is

I have been in direct contact with Rbarryza, and we are discussing his requirement .. For the benefit of non- active readers of the posting, I will summarize the situation:

Yes, this router is running Busybox ... and as such, in terms of the GPL, we are required to provide source code for what has been used AND any modification that have been done.... as Rbarryza suggests, that’s the unambiguous condition of using GPL licensed code..... {what I am not sure about, is what happens if you not post the firmware, but only provide it in the router - how does one then comply with the license agreements ..... however , that is not the question here.... just a side issue that would only be relevant if we chose not to post the firmware on our site ...)

......... In terms of GPL, we need to provide the code as I said above...

However.......

It’s not quite so simple..... as SecretCode rightly suggests : GPL makes quite clear what constitutes a modification of the GPL licensed code, and what is an application... if anyone is not sure, the license documentation (version 2) is fairly easy to understand, so I will not try to explain hear.. (It’s to do with how the various parts of the software make calls to each other) however, since there are a few parties involved in the coding - (manufacturer, chipset manufacturer etc ...), and some of the "modules" are actually applications in terms of the GPL definition, every part of the code needs to be gone through, by all those involved, so as to determine if it is a modification or an application..... this is what is happening at the moment...

Once this is done, we will be releasing the source code that is fully compliant with the GPL license, but at the same time, does not clash with the licensing agreements for the various portions of the s/w that are propriety...

What I would like to do in the interim, is ask that if anyone would like to be notified once the code is available, please send an email with the subject line: "Mega 100wr source code request " or "Mega 100wr2 source code request “depending on which router you require it for (yes, there is a major F/W difference between the two units...) to [email protected], and I will notify you once the job is complete.


I would also like to thank Rbarryza publicly for bringing our attention to this oversight, and would like to correct the situation.

Regards
2c Telecoms

 

[rbarryza]

Thanks 2C. I really appreciated that you called me to discuss this, and are serious to comply with the GPL. This is what good service looks like, for those who wondered.

 

[z3r3]

@2CTelecoms:

I think most of us are only interested in tweaking with scripts the current setup or adding 1 or 2 additional apps. For that something similar to what LevelOne provide would be useful. They provide a gzipped tar with:
1) The dedicated firmware (no src)
2) The current precompiled apps, gpl'd linux, web scripts and shell scripts
3) Scripts to compile the above into a single image
4) The src for all gpl'd stuff and scripts to compile and patch it

I personally would only use items 1 to 3 above. I have one of the ADSL routers that came with the closer package and says "Closer ADSL Modem", but my CD says "Mega 100WR". So what would I address to you guys as the request for source code. WOuld you need to know the start of my serial no. to help me?