Microsoft Readies a 'Lean' Windows Client

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Thursday, May 12, 2005
Microsoft Readies a 'Lean' Windows Client
By Mary Jo Foley

Code-named 'Eiger,' the stripped-down version of Windows XP is designed for business users who want more security and manageability on older Windows PCs.

What's fatter than a thin client, but svelter than Windows XP? Microsoft's forthcoming "lean" client, code-named "Eiger."

Eiger, a stripped-down version of Windows XP Professional, is designed for customers who want more security and manageability, but who aren't ready or able to upgrade to Windows XP, according to Microsoft officials. It is not a thin client in the traditional sense. Instead, Microsoft will offer it as an interim, "bridge" solution for enterprise users who ultimately plan to move to XP or Longhorn, officials said.

Steven Bink a Microsoft certified systems engineer based in Amsterdam, was the first to go public with details about Eiger, when he published specs for the product on his Web site in April.

(Bink also published specs for a counterpart to Eiger, code-named "Monch." Microsoft officials say that Monch is nothing more than a wish-list of features and is not a product under development. Eiger and Monch are names of mountains in Switzerland.)

"We have a set of customers running old PCs and old operating systems – even as old as Windows 95," said Barry Goffe, a Windows group product manager. "These customers are primarily concerned about security, though some also are concerned about improving the manageability and TCO (total cost of ownership) of these systems."

Eiger will bring these users up to par with the level of security provided by XP Service Pack 2, Goffe said. It won't include the XP help and support content, wireless networking support and certain operating services found in XP, however.

Eiger will run on legacy systems with as little as 64MB of RAM, a Pentium-class processor and 500 MB hard drive. Eiger is designed to replace Windows 95, Windows 98 and NT 4 Workstation running on these systems.

Microsoft's solution? Provide these enterprise customers with an interim "lean" client – something between the "smart"/fat Windows XP client and the Windows XP Embedded thin client – that will allow them to "preserve their investments in their older PCs," Goffe explained.

Eiger is not yet in beta; Microsoft has provided early bits to a very small group of customers to get initial feedback on the feature set, Goffe said. He said it was "a little early to say" when Microsoft will ship such a release, but the company "would like to get it out as early as possible."

Goffe denied that Microsoft is looking at Eiger as a way to stave off defections from older versions of Windows to Linux or other alternative operating systems.

"Everyone I talk to wants to go to XP, but some don't have the resources or the ability to go there right now," Goffe said.

Eiger will be a good solution for PC users who want to improve the security and manageability of PCs running in terminal-services or mainframe-terminal-emulation mode, as well as those acting as Internet-Explorer-based clients connecting to back-end line-of-business applications.

"Eiger is not a general-purpose operating system. It can't run games, office-productivity software or line-of-business applications," he said. "We'll tell users that these kinds of things won't run well in this environment."

One thin-client expert said he understands Microsoft's desire to field a product in this space.

"Windows XP Embedded is too hard to use, and thin clients that support it are too expensive. There are a lot of little rinky-dink products out there that "convert" old PCs into thin clients, and I think Microsoft doesn't want to lose the chance to make these into real Windows-managed devices," said Brian Madden, a thin-client consultant and author.

"Personally I think this is a great idea, and once again shows Microsoft's commitment to the server-based computing model," Madden adde
 
Wow. What next? Dos3.1 reborn?

If anything ever smacked of desperation, then this is it. Microsoft finally figured out that not everyone is prepared to upgrade to their latest version of Virus substrate, and now, they're desperately trying to console that market with promises of a lean, low budget Windows XP.

News flash. Linux has been making desktops, firewalls and servers out of crappy old computers for well over 6 years. No amount of XP tweaking will make it perform the same.
 
BTW... this version of Windows XP will only run on Celeron, Duron and Via based Cpu's or older.
If you have a P4 / Athlon 64, Microsoft says you must get the Full version cause you can afford the expensive hardware.
 
News flash. Linux has been making desktops, firewalls and servers out of crappy old computers for well over 6 years. No amount of XP tweaking will make it perform the same.

I disagree - KDE and Gnome (which most distro's use) runs like utter ****e compared to XP.
 
Crash said:
BTW... this version of Windows XP will only run on Celeron, Duron and Via based Cpu's or older.
If you have a P4 / Athlon 64, Microsoft says you must get the Full version cause you can afford the expensive hardware.

You are confusing this "thin client" solution with the recently released Windows XP Starter Edition which is meant for developing countries.
 
Karnaugh said:
I disagree - KDE and Gnome (which most distro's use) runs like utter ****e compared to XP.

Who says they need to be running a GUI ? ;)

That's what a lot of windows-centric people forget, you can maintain/setup everything on Linux with ease via a terminal.

Anyway, I would have to disagree on KDE running like utter tripe compared to XP, my Athlon 1333 runs KDE fast. I tried it with XP and it's slow. It depends how much eye-candy you have running.
Gnome definately is slower than XP and KDE - no dought about that, even Gnome devs would admit it. (in darkened corners in sotto voices of course)

What bothers me is why should people upgrade something that's performing a perfectly good job already - if it aint broke, why fix it ?

Take this scenario :-

* Fully firewalled/secure network with anti-virus/trojan capabilities
* One persons job is simply to write quotations and invoices
* What's wrong with win98se and an older version of Word for that job ?

The answer - absolutely nothing wrong at all.

PC Manufacturers are very much in the bag with microsoft, so they'll try to convince you to upgrade all the time even though you don't need to - and of course what ships with all new PC's ? - the latest version of windows.

Yes, there are people who need to upgrade fairly frequently - people who need faster computers to get thier work done quicker. Database applications, 3D rendering, Graphic design (and web dev to a lesser extent), Sound engineers, Programmers.

For the majority of uses of a Desktop computer (not server) on this planet, a PIII with 256meg RAM and Win98SE is more than adaquate.

But Microsoft and hardware manufacturers obviously are not happy with that situation, so they try to sell people into upgrade cycles. Business is starting to resist this trend, with one eye cautiously evaluating alternatives that will run on older hardware, or hanging onto those boxes running win9x ... microsoft obviously realise this, hense the "slimmed down XP version" (as Rodent mentioned)

BTW, there was a project out there for a slimmed down version of win98 and I think the team went onto work on a winXP version - anyone know what it's called ?

It's a free setup and all you need is your copy of winXP and the program can remove components from the windows install files and then create a new install CD ?
 
bb_matt said:
That's what a lot of windows-centric people forget, you can maintain/setup everything on Linux with ease via a terminal.

I don't reckon using vi on a bunch of weirdo oddly named config files in the /etc/init.d directory as "ease" ... call it "torture" rather.
 
bb_matt said:
It's a free setup and all you need is your copy of winXP and the program can remove components from the windows install files and then create a new install CD ?

XPLite ???.
 
tibby.dude said:
I don't reckon using vi on a bunch of weirdo oddly named config files in the /etc/init.d directory as "ease" ... call it "torture" rather.

Yes, torture for idiots. What self respecting admin would not know how to use console?

Hey, I suppose there is a place in the world for the less-knowledgable people afterall :)
 
So, dear linux users, what would be the equivalent of Win95 <edit>Make that Win98SE</edit> for my son's Pentium 200 MMX with 96MB RAM? Bearing in mind he only plays old games on it...
 
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Clipse said:
Yes, torture for idiots. What self respecting admin would not know how to use console?

Hey, I suppose there is a place in the world for the less-knowledgable people afterall :)

Well this sort of attitude is the exact reason why Linux will always be an utter failure on the desktop and why Windows will continue to dominate.

Whatever happened to the notion of "personal" computers ???.
 
Raithlin said:
So, dear linux users, what would be the equivalent of Win95 for my son's Pentium 200 MMX with 96MB RAM? Bearing in mind he only plays old games on it...

Win 98SE .... used it until 01 Dec 2004 at home until I got XP Home Edition with my new PC :).
 
tibby.dude said:
Win 98SE .... used it until 01 Dec 2004 at home until I got XP Home Edition with my new PC :).
My mistake - I'm using Win98 SE at the moment. :)
 
tibby.dude said:
Well this sort of attitude is the exact reason why Linux will always be an utter failure on the desktop and why Windows will continue to dominate.

Whatever happened to the notion of "personal" computers ???.

Tibby, you've got completely the wrong end of the stick here.

Linux is not an utter failure on the desktop by any stretch of the imagination, in fact, it's highly functional. What IS the problem now is the lack of industry standard applications that run natively on Linux.

Until that happens, there's not much chance of Linux gaining much more desktop market share.

If companies like Adobe step up to the plate and start delivering thier application range to Linux, not much will change that.

It's entirely possible that it may happen, with larger companies taking Linux into more commercial areas it's possible that a single Linux distribution may be adopted and officially supported by companies such as Adobe - possibly Suse, possibly Mandrake - it all depends whether Linux on the Desktop gets a big enough share to make a difference - Catch 22 !

On the idea of "personal" computers, don't mix up Terminal applications with X applications. They each have thier individual strengths and purposes.

Just because you may find working in a terminal a nightmare, it doesn't mean that everyone else does - I enjoy it for what I use it for just like millions of other sysadmins.

Linux systems have the ability to be personalised so much further than windows, it belies belief - I can recompile my entire Linux kernel however I wish to, you cannot do that with Windows. I have a choice of many different desktops and themes that go further than Windows.

But I'm not knocking windows - I'm not that petty to dismiss an entire operating system, specifically one I use on a daily basis to get my design work done !

I use both and enjoy Linux and windows equally in different areas.

The reason Windows dominates is because of excellent marketing and a good enough product - the tying in with the hardware vendors launched Microsoft Dos/Windows into the mainstream via the use of OEM sales - that's how they dominated the desktop. Somebody was going to do it at some point - Microsoft just beat all the contendors to the end game. They created a single set of standards just good enough to beat off the confusion of multiple types of unix that were being used prior to windows taking off.
Apple decided not to license it's hardware, IBM did and the rest is history.

I see a world big enough for Linux, Windows and MacOS and fully embrace that - the more the merrier !
 
Ever noticed how the socalled MCSE's of the world kick against Linux? I know quite a few of them (or so they would like to be known as, usually self taught techies) and the last thing they would suggest to a client, is to go the Linux route. I think it probaly comes down to the fact that MS has made them quite a bit of money up to now, and for them to now learn a different OS seems very useless, especially as long as there are uninformed clients out there. Besides, Windoze has become so easy to maintain (although a lot of maintenance is required) that the client could probably do it themselves and fix most of the meltdowns, if they decided to gain a bit of knowledge about MS OS. So why will these Techies then install something that will give less trouble and therefore make them less money? :cool:

To me it all seems very wrong, much like the Telkomonapoly. Sure Linux can be a bit more challenging to set-up (depending on the distro), but once all that is done, most of the work is over and most importantly; the OS WORKS. I switched over to Linux 2 months ago, and will never look back. I've had with all of this monopoly stuff, constantly being forced into forking up more money every so many years, because "you have no choice". This light version thing sounds a lot like the Win ME, which as we all know was a disaster. Just another gimmic to get more hard earned cash out the consumers pockets.

Enough I say. We do have a choice and change can be scary, but it is worth it :D
 
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Hey, I'm not arguing with that, KillKape. I have 3 distros running on virtual PCs, including one that I'm building from scratch, all in an attempt to learn Linux intimately. My [off-topic] question was which would perform well on a P1 200MMX with 96MB RAM for gaming (win98 games on wine, perhaps) ?
I still don't have a answer yet. An earlier version of KDE or Gnome, perhaps?
 
Raithlin, I'm very new to the Linux thing, but I heard about a light weight distro on one of the Linux forums, called "Damn Small". I have'nt tried it myself but possibly worth investigating. I found this link quite usefull for the various distro's available. http://distrowatch.com/

Hope it helps :D
 
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