Minimum wage for waiters

DA-LION-619 said:
When have you chosen the price vs the quality of food.

I don't think I've ever heard some say, let's go there it's cheaper than x especially by an amount of 10%.

If the steak costs R100 vs R110 there, is the difference so major that you'd ignore which one does a better steak?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter that nobody says "let's go there it's cheaper" -- consumers are conscious of value.

On what basis are you assuming the more expensive menu price implies a better steak? Waiters don't typically make the food.
 
Tomtomtom said:
It doesn't matter that nobody says "let's go there it's cheaper" -- consumers are conscious of value.

On what basis are you assuming the more expensive menu price implies a better steak? Waiters don't typically make the food.
Click to expand...

But waiters do take the damage when the kitchen messes up. Which affects their tips.

I'm not saying more expense = better quality.
I'm saying adding 10% isn't going to make a difference to the decision factor in choosing a restaurant.
 
Many of your more well regarded restaurants automatically include the 10% tip.

It's really not a new concept.
 
Tomtomtom said:
It's 10% higher than the restaurant next door.

But then a customer wanders in, eats, gets his bill and sees that "no tipping is required". He tips 10% anyway, because he feels uncomfortable not doing so. That's 21% more.

A month later, he recalls that restaurant as being "pretty expensive", and doesn't go back.

Three months later, the restaurant is closing down.

But it's a matter of probabilities, not absolutes. I'm not saying no restaurant can do it, just that it's difficult given the customer expectation, and competition.
Click to expand...


still making up scenarious I see

do you have any evidence of this happening on a decent enough scale as you have described it?
 
Busstart said:
We actually seem to now be agreeing :). "Decent" salary is of course a hugely grey area. I do have one caveat though: If the staff are on a basic wage, even if only minimum wage, I as a customer would like to be made aware of that. I would be feeling a bit ripped off if I paid a waiter say a 15% tip at a restaurant, only to later learn that he received a salary. Tipping levels are based on our assumption that the vast majority of a waiters earn nothing else. To not correct this assumption is to mislead.
Click to expand...

I would like to know if the waiter is getting :
a) A decent wage (He can live and support his family. Career waiter) and therefor no tip is expected.
b) Minimum wage. Tipping is therefor expected.
c) Below minimum wage so that I can report the establishment to the authorities.

In my experience, the best service I get is from waiters that fall under category a)
 
Last edited:
Chevron said:
Well said.

The one restaurant that does this will look more expensive compared to everyone else and most likely lose business putting those same waitors out of a job.
Click to expand...

Well, thats not true. I eat out a lot. About a quarter of the restaurants I go to in a year will not have tipping. The other three quarters have tipping.
I do not base my decision on which restaurant I go to based on the system the restaurant uses. I prefer no tipping, but thats it.

There is no evidence to conclude that paying decent wages impacts on revenue of the business
 
JStrike said:
There is no evidence to conclude that paying decent wages impacts on revenue of the business
Click to expand...

here is the evidence!

Tomtomtom said:
It's 10% higher than the restaurant next door.

But then a customer wanders in, eats, gets his bill and sees that "no tipping is required". He tips 10% anyway, because he feels uncomfortable not doing so. That's 21% more.

A month later, he recalls that restaurant as being "pretty expensive", and doesn't go back.

Three months later, the restaurant is closing down.

But it's a matter of probabilities, not absolutes. I'm not saying no restaurant can do it, just that it's difficult given the customer expectation, and competition.
Click to expand...

although to be fair it is made up from thin air
 
Waiters who work in quiet, coffee shops where small bills are expected would probably go for a higher basic wage, as the tips may not be great. Waiters at fast moving places like those in Camps bay where the tips are large, will always go for tips over a daily wage/hourly wage anyday.

I will not tip if waiters get a salary, but I will tip if they get a small daily compensation or nothing at all. Service charges included means no additional tips to the waiters.

You cannot change one side without effecting the other, and I imagine no waiter was involved in these discussions. Give them the choice and be done with it, guaranteed they will go for tips rather.
 
Surv0 said:
Waiters who work in quiet, coffee shops where small bills are expected would probably go for a higher basic wage, as the tips may not be great. Waiters at fast moving places like those in Camps bay where the tips are large, will always go for tips over a daily wage/hourly wage anyday.

I will not tip if waiters get a salary, but I will tip if they get a small daily compensation or nothing at all. Service charges included means no additional tips to the waiters.

You cannot change one side without effecting the other, and I imagine no waiter was involved in these discussions. Give them the choice and be done with it, guaranteed they will go for tips rather.
Click to expand...

In a fast moving place it's very easy to make over R1000 or more in tips alone in 1 shift.
 
Last edited:
Surv0 said:
Waiters who work in quiet, coffee shops where small bills are expected would probably go for a higher basic wage, as the tips may not be great. Waiters at fast moving places like those in Camps bay where the tips are large, will always go for tips over a daily wage/hourly wage anyday.

I will not tip if waiters get a salary, but I will tip if they get a small daily compensation or nothing at all. Service charges included means no additional tips to the waiters.

You cannot change one side without effecting the other, and I imagine no waiter was involved in these discussions. Give them the choice and be done with it, guaranteed they will go for tips rather.
Click to expand...

Paying your waiter a wage of less than minimum wage is illegal.
Unless when you say "small daily compensation or nothing at all" you mean nothing above minimum wage
 
JStrike said:
Well, thats not true. I eat out a lot. About a quarter of the restaurants I go to in a year will not have tipping.
Click to expand...

You said earlier that your "no tipping" restaurant experiences were mostly overseas.

We're talking about a small cafe in South Africa. Would you expect 25% of the OP's competitors to have this policy?
 
Tomtomtom said:
You said earlier that your "no tipping" restaurant experiences were mostly overseas.

We're talking about a small cafe in South Africa. Would you expect 25% of the OP's competitors to have this policy?
Click to expand...

No idea. I can tell you it would have little effect on my decision to frequent his establishment or not. Actually, as I generally prefer when tipping is not necessary, I would probably frequent his establishment more often. Assuming the food was good
 
Tomtomtom said:
You said earlier that your "no tipping" restaurant experiences were mostly overseas.

I'm making up scenarious to suit my opinion. Would you expect 25% of the OP's competitors to have this policy?
Click to expand...

hypothetical scenario= hypothetical answer

and since when do small cafes in SA have waiters?

what is your idea of a small cafe?
 
Last edited:
To this screaming 'pay a decent wage' and 'criminal' how about this scenario which seems what a lot or you are suggesting?

I put a flat fee of 13% (our average tip across all waiters) onto the bill and institute a No Tipping policy. Am I being fair so far?

Now I pay that exact tip right back to the very same waiters, without any deductions, not pocketing any cheeky table or admin fee. They now officially earn that R10-15000, exactly the same amount as before. Am I now okay in your book? I've killed off the archaic tip system and I'm sending the waiters home with a decent sized paycheck?

The reality that none of you realise is that now I have to dock of PAYE, UIF from that very same pay check and lose another 14% in VAT as the tip is now part of Turnover. I'm worse off, but as you say screw me I'm a cheap boss. But the waiter worse off too
 
southafricanrob said:
To this screaming 'pay a decent wage' and 'criminal' how about this scenario which seems what a lot or you are suggesting?

I put a flat fee of 13% (our average tip across all waiters) onto the bill and institute a No Tipping policy. Am I being fair so far?

Now I pay that exact tip right back to the very same waiters, without any deductions, not pocketing any cheeky table or admin fee. They now officially earn that R10-15000, exactly the same amount as before. Am I now okay in your book? I've killed off the archaic tip system and I'm sending the waiters home with a decent sized paycheck?

The reality that none of you realise is that now I have to dock of PAYE, UIF from that very same pay check and lose another 14% in VAT as the tip is now part of Turnover. I'm worse off, but as you say screw me I'm a cheap boss. But the waiter worse off too
Click to expand...

so in other words you encourage tax evasion (criminal activity) and reduce the total pool in UIF and you try to justify it
 
In the other matter - building the cost into my prices isn't a realistic option, we operate in a small neighbourhood with competitors on the same corner and we're all charging about as much as we can already...customers are regulars and extremely price sensitive. Those same regulars, who are our anchor trade, come in precisely because they have a human interaction with the waiter. Some customers have favourites waiters and vice versa. We sell the human interaction as much as the product - its one of the reasons you eat out and not at home. If it where just about the product and the quality then we may as well be a vending machine. The traditional tipping structure, like it or not is kind of built around this. You're not just getting your plate put down on your table and your water glass filled - that kind of service generally gets no tip or a poor review. Everyone likes to be made to feel special - thats the basis of it from my experience. At least on our street corner thats how its goes...
 
southafricanrob said:
To this screaming 'pay a decent wage' and 'criminal' how about this scenario which seems what a lot or you are suggesting?

I put a flat fee of 13% (our average tip across all waiters) onto the bill and institute a No Tipping policy. Am I being fair so far?

Now I pay that exact tip right back to the very same waiters, without any deductions, not pocketing any cheeky table or admin fee. They now officially earn that R10-15000, exactly the same amount as before. Am I now okay in your book? I've killed off the archaic tip system and I'm sending the waiters home with a decent sized paycheck?

The reality that none of you realise is that now I have to dock of PAYE, UIF from that very same pay check and lose another 14% in VAT as the tip is now part of Turnover. I'm worse off, but as you say screw me I'm a cheap boss. But the waiter worse off too
Click to expand...

Getting emotional about this isn't going to help. It doesn't really matter whether you agree or not with the minimum wage, that is the law. You don't like it:
Kill your business.
Replace your staff with robots.
Move your business to another country.

So that aside, you need to find a way to make your business model work within the confines of the law. That is your job as a business owner. If a price hike is the best way to ensure you comply with the law, then that has to be it.

You can choose to make this an advantage and use it to boost your business's ethos by stating to your customers that you pay your waiters a decent wage (which according to your first post is pretty good). If your customers are happy with that and even more happy about the service they receive, your waiters will get a tip regardless.

Your competitors have to play by the same rules as you do. If they don't, report them to the dept of labour.
 
southafricanrob said:
To this screaming 'pay a decent wage' and 'criminal' how about this scenario which seems what a lot or you are suggesting?

I put a flat fee of 13% (our average tip across all waiters) onto the bill and institute a No Tipping policy. Am I being fair so far?

Now I pay that exact tip right back to the very same waiters, without any deductions, not pocketing any cheeky table or admin fee. They now officially earn that R10-15000, exactly the same amount as before. Am I now okay in your book? I've killed off the archaic tip system and I'm sending the waiters home with a decent sized paycheck?

The reality that none of you realise is that now I have to dock of PAYE, UIF from that very same pay check and lose another 14% in VAT as the tip is now part of Turnover. I'm worse off, but as you say screw me I'm a cheap boss. But the waiter worse off too
Click to expand...

That sounds completely reasonable.
You also have the alternative where you pay minimum wage and waiters still get tips.

If you can't afford to do either, your business is built around illegally cheap labour and you really should reconsider being in business.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X