Mobile providers and VoIP

[Abe]

I have seen that post... but policy states that if MTN decides to bite me for using it, they can at their discretion...

Yes, the terms and conditions are significant. The fact that they can do it retroactively is also significant. You have a contract and use 200 Meg in VOIP calls. MTN can charge you something like R2K for that data. You can't say you didn't know as it is is part of their standard terms and conditions.

 

[Abe]

Ok But what will happen if the stance is the same on all Cellular providers ?
Eg: No VOIP.

What does that leave U the consumer with ?

Then it will have to be Telkom. Make no bones about it. I dislike Telkom as much if not more then the next guy, but I will not cut off my nose to spite my face. For too long people have been paying crazy amounts for telecommunications. I average about R1700 per month on my MTN contracts and another R500 on Telkom. I am switching both MTN accounts to "Pay as you go" and then getting a Telkom Closer 4. I already have ADSL as the data costs for the cellular providers are too expensive. My goal is to cut my monthly telecommunications costs to R700. Eventually the cellular providers will have to start cutting costs and reducing the massive profit margins that we are presently seeing. WiMax is going to force that on them.

 

[durbandave]

Rules and regulations

i would love to know how MTN and other companies like them are just able to change the rules and regulations when they want to.

last time i checked a contract that is signed for 2 years is still legally valid for 2 years. they cant just chop and change when they feel it suits them.

Where is ICASA in governing these sort of problems which come up, this is hardly fair on the consumer.

oh wait i see all the honourable councillors of ICASA asleep at there desk. Typical. Nice start to 2007 for the telecommunications sector of SA.

we are probably going to endure another year of being screwed by our our own country and companies to the benefit of big majority state owned corporations. No doubt Telkom and Vodacom will be then next to step on that train.

 

[Pitbull]

I'm going to try and clarify this IMO.

The contract you're refering to is the same one where U where charged R 20.00 a MB before the price cut ... correct ?

This is the case I think once again In My Own opinion.

The fee's @ R20.00 a MB was approved long ago. The cellular companies did a price cut but only on certain services that they provide....

So according to you a price cut is fine but leaving some charges the way the where is wrong... and then refer back to the same contract... You got me there...

Maybe I understood your post wrong.

 

[lilDeath]

Welcome to the world of Naspers.... "If you dont like it, dump it."

(MTN, DSTV, MWEB, Kalahari.net News24 are the same group)

Hrm, when did this happen? MTN part of the Naspers group?
Are you making the common mistake of "M"-group association???

 

[wimaxjunkie]

Wimax and Neotel

Dumb move MTN... rather embrace VoIP and upgrade your network... better still, rip out the 3G and replace it with WiMAX. WiMAX is here to stay.

Germany has granted 3 nation wide licenses for WiMAX operators, Sprint is rolling out a nation-wide WiMAX network across the US (There are rumours that Nokia will be an equipment partner), a big WiMAX network is being deployed in India by Aircel, Italy is set to auction WiMAX spectrum in June 2007, etc etc.

The core of mobile operators' businesses are at stake here. WiMAX is said to be 3x as fast and 1/3 of the price of 3G w/ HSDPA (These are licensed technologies)

I believe Neotel is best positioned to take advantage of WiMAX... and if they do it right..... THEY WILL REALLY HURT THE EXISTING PLAYERS.

Expect to upgrade to a GSM/WiMAX handset by the end of 2008.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Alright, I know that this thread is primarily about cellular services and whatnot, but I can't help but feel that perhaps, just maybe - call it illogical optimism - Neotel will be the catalyst that fixes everything.

If Neotel does end up reducing costs of services by 75%, that means that Telkom will have to follow. Wouldn't that cause the cellular providers to think twice and perhaps lower their tariffs and nonsense too?

I find it ridiculous that the cellular providers are adamant in keeping South Africa in the "Digital Dark Age" just because they refuse to lower their prices, accept that new technology ISN'T going to disappear and just stfu, grit their teeth and deal with it.

Instead, they're happily losing clients due to their disrespect and inability to open their eyes and see that just MAYBE the world doesn't work they way they think it does.

My heart and faith lies in Neotel. I honestly hope beyond all hope that they change the way the telecommunications sector works and actually do the best for their clients, not just for themselves.

One way or the other, Telkom's stuffed me around long enough, I'm Neotel's one way or the other. (Just had to add that lol)

 

[Windmill]

Cellery phone cartel doomed

It is amazing to see the demise of a cartel. Imagine the american railroad barrons when Henry Ford came allong with his model T and put them out of business. The same will happen to the worlds cellery phone cartels, whether its IM, mxit, jahjah, mobile skype-there is a que of Bill Gates type guys in their garages at home writing code, the cartels are doomed. What we are seeing is a revolution in the telcom industry. All those fat cats sitting in their plush vodacom offices will be on the dole in ten years. It's tragic they just don't get it, their wives and families will be impoverished by their intelectual sloth.

 

[damian24]

Hrm, when did this happen? MTN part of the Naspers group?
Are you making the common mistake of "M"-group association???

Yea, funny how so many people assume the Naspers owns MTN...

List of major share holders as at 12 Jun 2006 :
Newshelf 664 (Pty) Ltd 14.60% (owned by MTN Staff http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2473440)
Public Investment Commissioners 14.30%
Old Mutual Group 7.90%

out of interest this is what Naspers actually owns (for those boycotting!)...

Beeld
Daily Sun
Damelin
Die Burger
DSTV
Educor
Entriq
Fairlady
FilmNet Hellas
Huisgenoot
Irdeto Access
Jonathan Ball Publishers
M-Net
M-Web
Media24
Midrand Campus
MultiChoice
NetMed
Nova
Paarl Media
QQ
Rapport
SuperSport
UBC
Via Afrika
You

D

 

[Prometheus]

“Vodacom customers can download and use VoIP clients such as Skype but will experience the typical “bursty” nature of the internet leading to poor voice quality and could be charged mobile VoIP tariffs,” Vodacom said.

Since when is the internet bursty? You probably use it for your voice calls. Just because your network can't handle it don't blame it on the internet.

No cellular provider should be blocking new technology. Especially the likes of VOIP. Anyways, with a prepaid card on MTN, id firstly like them to notice the VOIP traffic, if they do... cancel my prepaid simcard... why not .... charge me the R25 per MB tarfiff.... um, you gonna give me a negative balance?

lolz @ MTN

Only problem is that from 1 July 2007 they will know who you are by law.

This is just another pro-Vodacom, anti-their competition, MyADSL "news" report. The editorial bias is showing through here once again.

We had a similar M&G article recently (somewhat more balanced) that showed MTN and Vodacom in exactly the same boat.



Which is exactly why MTN won't venture down that path either.

Truth is, neither MTN nor Vodacom want VOIP traffic on their networks, both have "plans" in place to counter it, both "reserve the right" to charge extra, but neither have the balls to carry out the threat. It might not even be legal. So right now, there is a roar and a snarl, but no teeth.

The "News" will be when one of the networks actually starts charging punative rates for VOIP traffic.

If they don't like it then they shouldn't make these statements and instead deny it like Vodacom. The bad press is entirely their own fault.

 

[Gatecrasher]

If they don't like it then they shouldn't make these statements and instead deny it like Vodacom.

When and where did Vodacom deny it? I missed that bit.

 

[Tns]

i wonder how easy it's for them to "detect"voip amongs the other data

 

[Pitbull]

i wonder how easy it's for them to "detect"voip amongs the other data

U would be suprized.

 

[mancombseepgood]

Lol

i wonder how easy it's for them to "detect"voip amongs the other data

there's nothing to it - even freeware can identify packet types by their header... so remember... when it comes to fus stuff like VoIP, MTN want to spoil the party.
Consumers are burning to take the whole telecoms industry into their own hands - & it's going to happen IMO.

 

[Prometheus]

When and where did Vodacom deny it? I missed that bit.

MyADSL however has it on good authority that it is highly unlikely that Vodacom will venture down this path, which means that MTN stands to lose thousands of high-end customers if they introduce higher VoIP rates.

MTN on the other hand:

Seligmann says MTN does have the technical capability to block Voip calls and charge them at the higher rate, but had not done so as yet. He says the rate was a precautionary measure to prevent the MTN network being swamped with Voip data, which would lower the quality of service.

has not made it a secret that it could possibly charge for VoIP and has even considered blocking it.

With that said I am not happy with either network's open options stance and would like them to make a press statement if they intend to force an extra charge for VoIP or not. I don't want to see an optional extra QoS rate for VoIP as it would, like in the case of Telkom, artificially cripple their standard offering.

 

[MyDraadloos]

Voice is dead . . . Long live voice (over IP)!

 

[MyDraadloos]

I think the number of VoIP clients available is an indication of a new/future trend in telephony. Unfortunately it will not be embraced by all existing mobile /fixed operators unless they have a radical rethink of their revenue models.

I'm pretty sure that VoIP will be a another step toward technology anarchy. The final merger of Internet and voice infrastructure.

Internet offered free information and dissemination thereof.
E-mail has killed off postal system (to an extent) and fax transmissions.
IM has brought instant gratification and communication.
VoIP will change telephony for the better, without the butter for the traditional operators.

Cellular phones and cell/mobile phone companies were merely an evolutionary step between the convergence of Internet and telephony. The question is how they will choose to reinvent themselves or try to suppress or delay the inevitable.

 

[sabagamma]

I am just curious, how exactly is MTN/Vodacom going to prove that you used VOIP between 12h00 - 14h00 last week Monday?

If they say you used it, and you deny it what are they going to do? Take you to a judge and show him your packets?

I think over the long term this is going to be almost impossible to enforce. Someone in this country will come out with a SSH Skype plugin that will encrypt all communication. All that you will be able to see is that the packets are SSH encrypted packets.

What then, ban SSH? MTN/Vodacom add this phrase to your dictionary before it is too late: Consumer Backlash.