kaspaas
Expert Member
But then, why did the driver speed away?
Maybe not so innocent.
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More police deaths
- Thread starter kaspaas
- Start date
But then, why did the driver speed away?
Maybe not so innocent.
Pitbull
Verboten
Justified cause. They where driving at high speedand could have killed more innocent people. Why did they stop after 24 rounds only ? Holy Crap, Police fire one shot at my car and I'll stop anywhere they want me too
Nocturnity
Expert Member
Agreed. They should've stopped. You don't drive away for no reason.
Pitbull
Verboten
Sad that the Passangers got hit, as they have no control over the car. But to hit a moving target while moving yourself is very hard. I would guess they fired a warning shot or 2. Still the death of any passenger guilty or not is to many. But it is the driver that is to blame
quovadis
Honorary Master
Regardless of if the driver stopped or not - I still think that the police's action was extremely excessive. They could've just given chase and sooner or later the car wouldve run out of fuel or would've been caught. After all this is how law enforcement handle these situations in first world countries. Deadly force should only be at a last resort.
I'm sure a speeding vehicle is less dangerous than a bunch of SA police firing rounds at a moving object on a public road.
I'm sure a speeding vehicle is less dangerous than a bunch of SA police firing rounds at a moving object on a public road.
Pitbull
Verboten
Or, Police could have just given chase at HIGH SPEED the driver of the car loose control and hit your car head on with you, you're Wife and 3 kids in it..... Yea I think you're right, it was excessive
quovadis
Honorary Master
Went I spent time in the US a few years back there was a similar thing that happened there where a driver refused to stop for a cop. They pursued the driver while closing off sections of the highway and on/offramps to prevent the idiot from causing an accident.
Now imagine your wife and kids driving on the opposite side of the road and being shot by a stray bullet or the driver being killed while the vehicle is still moving. Either way discharging a firearm in public is as dangerous as a speeding driver.
The police had other options and in this case chose excessive force.
Now imagine your wife and kids driving on the opposite side of the road and being shot by a stray bullet or the driver being killed while the vehicle is still moving. Either way discharging a firearm in public is as dangerous as a speeding driver.
The police had other options and in this case chose excessive force.
BiteMe
Expert Member
my motorcycle was stolen, then the police found it. so they phoned me to go pick it up, so i did
a year and a half later i'm merrily buzzing on some back road and get shot at.
moer.
so i stop (quickly) and realise there are two cops cars behind me. turns out THEY didnt change the status of the motorcycle to found and returned, so as far as these blokes were concerned they were chasing a stolen vehicle. apparently they had put their lights on and bleeped me, but heck if i could hear a thing over my exhaust,.,so i got shot at. THAT I did hear.
ja, i was p1ssed hey, but after i complained etc turns out it is protocol...if the cops ask you to stop in their special way and you dont stop, they can and will open fire. at least this was in 1992. i feel sorry for the guy who is dead, but he should blame his friend who didnt stop. the cops were doing their job and as far as i can see the driver couldve been some crazed car bomber on a suicide mission. one bloke died. pity. who knows how many have been saved in the past by these exact same actions.
a year and a half later i'm merrily buzzing on some back road and get shot at.
moer.
so i stop (quickly) and realise there are two cops cars behind me. turns out THEY didnt change the status of the motorcycle to found and returned, so as far as these blokes were concerned they were chasing a stolen vehicle. apparently they had put their lights on and bleeped me, but heck if i could hear a thing over my exhaust,.,so i got shot at. THAT I did hear.
ja, i was p1ssed hey, but after i complained etc turns out it is protocol...if the cops ask you to stop in their special way and you dont stop, they can and will open fire. at least this was in 1992. i feel sorry for the guy who is dead, but he should blame his friend who didnt stop. the cops were doing their job and as far as i can see the driver couldve been some crazed car bomber on a suicide mission. one bloke died. pity. who knows how many have been saved in the past by these exact same actions.
Robin Hood
Expert Member
To live in today's South Africa, you can't blame the police for shooting at "runaway" cars. It's a pity what had happened, but that's the way it is...Like the one guy said, why did they speed away?
marine1
Honorary Master
3 sides to every story
I think its totally unacceptable, you cant try and kill someone for evading a road block.
There is a law of necessity, I know this is a bit off topic, but lets say you have to take a family member to a hospital (eg, he/she having a heart attack), and you're speeding and on the way theres a road block. You don't stop because every second counts, and next thing you know you're getting shot at.
They should have just rammed the car or something.
They should only shoot when being shot at. Just my R0.02
There is a law of necessity, I know this is a bit off topic, but lets say you have to take a family member to a hospital (eg, he/she having a heart attack), and you're speeding and on the way theres a road block. You don't stop because every second counts, and next thing you know you're getting shot at.
They should have just rammed the car or something.
They should only shoot when being shot at. Just my R0.02
Pitbull
Verboten
So the same scene your giving now, heart attack and all, you say it's fine to rather ram the car than shoot at it ? Wouldn't that be the same thing as at the end you will not reach the hospital anyway ?
You would get at the Hospital quicker if you drive to the road block and get a police escort
Killove they were not killed for trying to evade the roadblock, they died as a result of their own actions.
First, they drove through a roadblock, they knew what it was as you have police vehicles with their blue lights on, you have officers with reflective jackets standing in the road directing traffic. It is very possible that these youngsters may have driven through at high speed almost hitting some of the officers.
Secondly they failed to stop when chased by a marked police vehicle with lights and siren going. They were attempting to evade arrest.
Thirdly they failed to stop when fired upon, this would have made the officer’s suspect that they were dealing with dangerous CRIMMINALS, who were possibly armed.
Fourth it is possible that they were unable to get close enough to ram the other car, police vans are not that fast, plus members of the SAPS are not taught how to ram a car safely therefore they would have been endangering themselves.
As for your example, it is stupid, of course you would stop, because you could ask the officers to escort you thus ensuring that you get to hospital faster and safer. I have ridden escort a few times in medical emergencies and every time we were flagged down by the drivers.
quovadis as you said the STATES, in SA we do not have all the resources they do and I doubt that this incident happened on a highway.
It is very easy to make judgements after the event, but we were not there and do not know what happened
First, they drove through a roadblock, they knew what it was as you have police vehicles with their blue lights on, you have officers with reflective jackets standing in the road directing traffic. It is very possible that these youngsters may have driven through at high speed almost hitting some of the officers.
Secondly they failed to stop when chased by a marked police vehicle with lights and siren going. They were attempting to evade arrest.
Thirdly they failed to stop when fired upon, this would have made the officer’s suspect that they were dealing with dangerous CRIMMINALS, who were possibly armed.
Fourth it is possible that they were unable to get close enough to ram the other car, police vans are not that fast, plus members of the SAPS are not taught how to ram a car safely therefore they would have been endangering themselves.
As for your example, it is stupid, of course you would stop, because you could ask the officers to escort you thus ensuring that you get to hospital faster and safer. I have ridden escort a few times in medical emergencies and every time we were flagged down by the drivers.
quovadis as you said the STATES, in SA we do not have all the resources they do and I doubt that this incident happened on a highway.
It is very easy to make judgements after the event, but we were not there and do not know what happened
My belief stands firm, you don't shoot at someone for evading a road block. Way too extreme.
The police probably didnt even know who they were, just because they can "assume they were dangerous criminals because they didnt stop when shot at "doesnt give them a right to shoot at them and kill them.
Perhaps if the cops KNEW they were dangerous criminals, and didnt just ASSUME then shooting at them would be alright.
But the fact is they didnt, all they knew was they were chasing some guys who evaded a road block.
Our police force are not supposed to be executioners by their own judgement.
The police probably didnt even know who they were, just because they can "assume they were dangerous criminals because they didnt stop when shot at "doesnt give them a right to shoot at them and kill them.
Perhaps if the cops KNEW they were dangerous criminals, and didnt just ASSUME then shooting at them would be alright.
But the fact is they didnt, all they knew was they were chasing some guys who evaded a road block.
Our police force are not supposed to be executioners by their own judgement.
Albereth
Honorary Master
Okay - you DO STOP. You DO tell the cops that your family member is having a heart attack and chances are you'll get a police escourt.
Do it your way and you get rammed? How did that help your family member?
Skeptik
Banned
NO he died because the police killed him.
There was no evidence they were armed or dangerous. They were just trying to evade the roadblock. They could have been some kids who went on a joyride.
It's time that this kill kill kill police mentality was changed.
NO he died because the police killed him.
There was no evidence they were armed or dangerous. They were just trying to evade the roadblock. They could have been some kids who went on a joyride.
It's time that this kill kill kill police mentality was changed.
My point exactly
Skeptik
Unfortunatly he was killed by the police, however it is as a result of the drivers actions that he died.
Which is what armed robbers would try and do
Do you believe it is okay to evade the road block and then try to evade a marked police vechile that is trying to stop you?
That fact that they were teenagers means nothing.
Unfortunatly he was killed by the police, however it is as a result of the drivers actions that he died.
Which is what armed robbers would try and do
Do you believe it is okay to evade the road block and then try to evade a marked police vechile that is trying to stop you?
That fact that they were teenagers means nothing.
evading arrest does not justify being killed.
Like i said, if he was shooting back, then fine, acceptable.