Multiple VAT trading names

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Sbbw

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I was wondering if anyone knows whether it's possible to register multiple trading names under one VAT registration/number. I can't find anything that says you can't, and I don't see why you couldn't (as long as you register the trading name with CIPC), but I've received conflicting reports from SARS regarding the matter. One agent said that it's not possible, and I must register a new VAT number. However, another then said that you can have 100 trading names if you wanted to, however, their internal system only supports one line input, and so you're restricted to what you can fit in there (ie. Trading Name A and Trading Name B, etc.).

Has anyone dealt with this before, and are able to provide some feedback.

Thanks.
 
HavocXphere said:
Nope - VAT is tied to the legal entity.
Click to expand...

Yup, hence my question about the trading names, and why I can't see there being a problem having multiple trading names registered on the legal entity's VAT certificate.
 
HavocXphere said:
Nope - VAT is tied to the legal entity.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what about this...

company cc trading as abc traders
company cc trading as abc1 traders
company cc trading as abc2 traders
company cc trading as abc3 traders

It's still one legal entity....

But then, my suggestion would be to simply invoice it as such and give the [obviously] registered name to SARS - for instance I think that's how Prophecy's invoices are - "company cc trading as Prophecy"
 
Sbbw said:
Yup, hence my question about the trading names, and why I can't see there being a problem having multiple trading names registered on the VAT certificate.
Click to expand...
Still legal entity in my view.

e.g. Previously you could "trade as" without actually registering the name.
Meaning Legal (Pty) Ltd trades as BSName (Pty) Ltd but doesn't register it. Meaning that the legal entity (and the VAT paying entity) is Legal (Pty) Ltd.

Then they freaked out about the bull name thing and decided that you must own the other name too. This to me is an attempt aimed purely at stopping the bull name thing & does not change anything from a legal perspective imo.

So Legal (Pty) Ltd is the legal entity as it was before the new laws & its the entity that will be registered for VAT.

That being said, there isn't much clarity on this at the moment & the above is a guess at best. You're getting conflicting info because nobody knows for sure.

------------

I don't get why you'd split it though - the VAT legislation specifically includes provisions to catch people trying to split their VAT & thus dodge the threshold.

froot said:
It's still one legal entity....
Click to expand...
Its not. "Trading as" is illegal without registering the other name too (Since company act 2008 I think). People are slow to catch on though. I alerted some of our ISPs to this like a year back...10 internet points says its still wrong.
 
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froot said:
Yes, but what about this...

company cc trading as abc traders
company cc trading as abc1 traders
company cc trading as abc2 traders
company cc trading as abc3 traders

It's still one legal entity....

But then, my suggestion would be to simply invoice it as such and give the [obviously] registered name to SARS - for instance I think that's how Prophecy's invoices are - "company cc trading as Prophecy"
Click to expand...

The problem isn't when we issue invoices - our invoices include both our trading name and company name. It's more for when a creditor issues us an invoice, and by mistake uses our trading name instead of our company name. Then there's the potential that SARS will reject the VAT refund as they'll say the trading name isn't on the VAT registration certificate (even if the VAT number is correct).
 
Sbbw said:
The problem isn't when we issue invoices - our invoices include both our trading name and company name. It's more for when a creditor issues us an invoice, and by mistake uses our trading name instead of our company name. Then there's the potential that SARS will reject the VAT refund as they'll say the trading name isn't on the VAT registration certificate (even if the VAT number is correct).
Click to expand...

Has this actually happened? SARS rejecting your refund because there was a mixup between your registered and trading name?
 
Hamster said:
Has this actually happened? SARS rejecting your refund because there was a mixup between your registered and trading name?
Click to expand...

No, but we'd rather not take the chance. I did get confirmation from them that the company or trading name on an invoice must be on the VAT registration certificate. I doubt it's checked often, but we'd rather not risk it.
 
HavocXphere said:
Its not. "Trading as" is illegal without registering the other name too (Since company act 2008 I think). People are slow to catch on though. I alerted some of our ISPs to this like a year back...10 internet points says its still wrong.
Click to expand...

Ah. Yeah I didn't do the Companies Act as part of my degree so I didn't go through the entire thing.
 
Sbbw said:
The problem isn't when we issue invoices - our invoices include both our trading name and company name. It's more for when a creditor issues us an invoice, and by mistake uses our trading name instead of our company name. Then there's the potential that SARS will reject the VAT refund as they'll say the trading name isn't on the VAT registration certificate (even if the VAT number is correct).
Click to expand...

Insist the creditor corrects the name to the correct [XYZ (Pty) Ltd T/A ABC]on the invoice before you pay them :)

I only handle one company, but our name is very often spelled incorrectly, and I always make them change it before I pay them - getting it changed after the fact can be a royal pain. Most are very understanding, and make the changes quickly with no problem. After all they want their money so a little change to the invoice isn't too much to ask.
 
froot said:
Ah. Yeah I didn't do the Companies Act as part of my degree so I didn't go through the entire thing.
Click to expand...
I just looked it up...its s81 of the CPA that is the problem...not the Company Act. My bad.

http://www.companylaw.uct.ac.za/usr...slation/WLB_2011-06_IP_corporate_names_DW.pdf

Glammy said:
Insist the creditor corrects the name to the correct [XYZ (Pty) Ltd T/A ABC]on the invoice before you pay them :)
Click to expand...
I take it you're a creditors clerk? A word of warning - the external auditors will freak out about this. The correct procedure is a credit note that "mirrors" the wrong invoice 100% (incl wrong name etc) thus cancelling it. Then a correct new invoice is issued. Keep all 3 on file & present all 3 to the auditors if any one of the 3 is asked for.

That being said, your counterpart on the other side (the debtors clerk who agree to your request to just issue a new one) is in for way more flak than you if this is discovered.

If the mistake is simply corrected by issuing a new invoice then you've got 2 invoices floating around...bad day for all involved.
 
HavocXphere said:
I take it you're a creditors clerk? A word of warning - the external auditors will freak out about this. The correct procedure is a credit note that "mirrors" the wrong invoice 100% (incl wrong name etc) thus cancelling it. Then a correct new invoice is issued. Keep all 3 on file & present all 3 to the auditors if any one of the 3 is asked for.

That being said, your counterpart on the other side (the debtors clerk who agree to your request to just issue a new one) is in for way more flak than you if this is discovered.

If the mistake is simply corrected by issuing a new invoice then you've got 2 invoices floating around...bad day for all involved.
Click to expand...

This is a bit of a mission but the correct way. Once an invoice has been issued, the only way to correct it is to issue a credit note followed with a new invoice with the correct details.

Many smaller companies do not do this and Pastel Accounting, if setup correctly, will not allow an invoice to be edited after being printed as it would update the system when the invoice is generated.
 
HavocXphere said:
I take it you're a creditors clerk? A word of warning - the external auditors will freak out about this. The correct procedure is a credit note that "mirrors" the wrong invoice 100% (incl wrong name etc) thus cancelling it. Then a correct new invoice is issued. Keep all 3 on file & present all 3 to the auditors if any one of the 3 is asked for.

That being said, your counterpart on the other side (the debtors clerk who agree to your request to just issue a new one) is in for way more flak than you if this is discovered.

If the mistake is simply corrected by issuing a new invoice then you've got 2 invoices floating around...bad day for all involved.
Click to expand...

I never said don't ask for a credit note, thought that would be implied :D Although I do agree that the they way I wrote my comment, I can see how you thought I said they must simply change the invoice, my bad :o

And no I am not the creditors clerk, I am the accountant :p Which explains my understanding of the numbers and not the being able to get the message across in words, haha!
 
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Sbbw said:
Yup, hence my question about the trading names, and why I can't see there being a problem having multiple trading names registered on the legal entity's VAT certificate.
Click to expand...

First Natiional Bank, Firstrand, Rand Merchant Bank have different trading names but 1 VAT Number
 
HavocXphere said:
I just looked it up...its s81 of the CPA that is the problem...not the Company Act. My bad.

http://www.companylaw.uct.ac.za/usr...slation/WLB_2011-06_IP_corporate_names_DW.pdf


I take it you're a creditors clerk? A word of warning - the external auditors will freak out about this. The correct procedure is a credit note that "mirrors" the wrong invoice 100% (incl wrong name etc) thus cancelling it. Then a correct new invoice is issued. Keep all 3 on file & present all 3 to the auditors if any one of the 3 is asked for.

That being said, your counterpart on the other side (the debtors clerk who agree to your request to just issue a new one) is in for way more flak than you if this is discovered.

If the mistake is simply corrected by issuing a new invoice then you've got 2 invoices floating around...bad day for all involved.
Click to expand...
Being an auditor myself, can confirm that this is true
 
We do Company X trading as Y, B, C, D etc

SARS is yet to reject a tax claim for mixup on the trading as names
 
Sbbw said:
I was wondering if anyone knows whether it's possible to register multiple trading names under one VAT registration/number. I can't find anything that says you can't, and I don't see why you couldn't (as long as you register the trading name with CIPC), but I've received conflicting reports from SARS regarding the matter. One agent said that it's not possible, and I must register a new VAT number. However, another then said that you can have 100 trading names if you wanted to, however, their internal system only supports one line input, and so you're restricted to what you can fit in there (ie. Trading Name A and Trading Name B, etc.).

Has anyone dealt with this before, and are able to provide some feedback.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Read the vendors guide,

http://www.sars.gov.za/AllDocs/OpsD...AT 404 Guide for Vendors - External Guide.pdf (PDF)
 
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