Mweb latency spikes

Shebam

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
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Hi all, Just a little quizzie as to some weird problems I have been having with my Mweb 4096 Uncapped account.

Downloading locally and internationally are still good and have been for some time, whether it be NZB, torrents or vanilla http stuff.

What bothers me is when I do things like host a game server (cod4 in this instance) there are lag spikes that push all player up in to the 350ms - 500ms region for say 5 seconds then it drops again for a minute then it happens again. I have used proxyfirewall to block all apps attempting to use the net except my server but still this happens. I am the only one on the network. No torrents/NZB's/http stuff going either.

Has anyone else experienced this or is my issue unique and need to look further into the matter.

Changing to my telkom 1GB account fixes the issue.

This has been happening for 2 weeks now.

Thanks in advance :p
 
Hi all, Just a little quizzie as to some weird problems I have been having with my Mweb 4096 Uncapped account.

Downloading locally and internationally are still good and have been for some time, whether it be NZB, torrents or vanilla http stuff.

What bothers me is when I do things like host a game server (cod4 in this instance) there are lag spikes that push all player up in to the 350ms - 500ms region for say 5 seconds then it drops again for a minute then it happens again. I have used proxyfirewall to block all apps attempting to use the net except my server but still this happens. I am the only one on the network. No torrents/NZB's/http stuff going either.

Has anyone else experienced this or is my issue unique and need to look further into the matter.

Changing to my telkom 1GB account fixes the issue.

This has been happening for 2 weeks now.

Thanks in advance :p

Spikes are often caused by the shaper. If the latency doesn't increase too much, then this is quite characteristic of over-shaping on uncapped.
 
This could be but Mweb don't shape gaming protocols(generic UDP) especially on odd ports like 28960.. Do you think they may be fiddling with throttling also?
 
I get it alot.. games are unplayable.. so now I dont game anymore, bought a separate capped account for gaming :-)

WHat account are you using for gaming now.. Looks like it's what i am going to have to do too
 
Hopefully issues like this will go away with the IPC upgrades this month.
 
This could be but Mweb don't shape gaming protocols(generic UDP) especially on odd ports like 28960.. Do you think they may be fiddling with throttling also?

Hi Shebam

No we are definitely not 'fiddling' with throttling - or as we like to call "The T Word" :)

A couple of questions:

Are you absolutely sure that you change nothing else when switching to the 1GB account and that the problem definitely goes away permanently?
When you say this has been happening for two weeks, am I correct in assuming that before then it was behaving normally?
If you play the game normally without hosting, do you experience similar latency spikes?

Thanks
Will
 
Hi Shebam

No we are definitely not 'fiddling' with throttling - or as we like to call "The T Word" :)

A couple of questions:

Are you absolutely sure that you change nothing else when switching to the 1GB account and that the problem definitely goes away permanently?
When you say this has been happening for two weeks, am I correct in assuming that before then it was behaving normally?
If you play the game normally without hosting, do you experience similar latency spikes?

Thanks
Will

I change absolutely nothing when I dial my telkom account. Simply disconnect, dial new connection and the connection is perfect with good pings on the Telkom account. I use PPPoE, but the mweb account is also loaded on the router as a fall back if the PPPoE fails while downloading. I use PPPoE for easier use of activedns and of course no port forwarding malarkey..

Since before 2 weeks ago, my pings were excelent 24/7.. never going above 80ms and sitting at 40 - 55 average to servers in DBN (i am in margate, lower south coast) and topping 90's to CPT servers.

I still get lag spikes when playing on other servers. For the sake of being thorough I contacted Telkom and asked them to reset my ports and get someone in to diagnose my last mile but nothing could be found.

I did notice my line protection was turned on under my accounts panel on the Mweb homepage.. Would this cause trouble if I have the account dialed on the router and then another via PPPoE. Both on the same line though..

Thanks for the help
And apart from the laggies, you guys offer a Super Mega Awesome Uncapped Service. :-)
 
Ok protected mode should definitely be off if you're trying to host anything, for starters do that and see if it improves anything. I'm going to assume that whatever you're doing with activedns is something you haven't changed and that you've eliminated that during troubleshooting already.

This is an odd one as it sounds like the symptoms you'd expect for exchange congestion, but then changing accounts wouldn't help.

I'd like to see some tracert and continous ping comparisons between the two accounts to your favourite server - or even just to a random website, we're looking for a congested hop, or some packetloss.
 
Ok protected mode should definitely be off if you're trying to host anything, for starters do that and see if it improves anything. I'm going to assume that whatever you're doing with activedns is something you haven't changed and that you've eliminated that during troubleshooting already.

This is an odd one as it sounds like the symptoms you'd expect for exchange congestion, but then changing accounts wouldn't help.

I'd like to see some tracert and continous ping comparisons between the two accounts to your favourite server - or even just to a random website, we're looking for a congested hop, or some packetloss.

I am at work now but I will post a tracert and continuous ping comps the second I get home. http://pingtest.net on a local server (JHB i think) gives me an A+ with roughly 28ms ping, with 0 packet loss and international is the same with latency the obvious exception. Not the best diagnostic tool I suppose as the spikes are intermittent.
 
pingtest.net results are fine, but if your gaming servers are not blocking icmp then I'd specifically like to zoom in on that and see the continous ping tests and tracerts to those destinations.
 
Shebam same boat as you. Also on Mweb but the 512 Uncapped option. First couple of weeks it ran great, 2 of us on one line getting 30-40ping on Counter-Strike source. Next weekend we were sitting on 300+. Seems to be getting worse with time as I have been unable to log into steam the last two days now. Trying to figure out if its isp related or congestion.

EDIT : IS CSS SERVER TRACERT

1 1 ms 9 ms 6 ms 192.168.0.254
2 9 ms 11 ms 8 ms 41-132-48-1.dsl.mweb.co.za [41.132.48.1]
3 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms tengig-0-0-0-104.vic-ipc-1.mweb.co.za [196.22.169.146]
4 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms vl-92.vic-hscore-2.mweb.co.za [196.22.189.3]
5 32 ms 33 ms 33 ms tengig-0-0-0-0-12.vic-up-1.mweb.co.za [196.22.169.241]
6 81 ms 81 ms 82 ms rrba-ip-hsll-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.25.8.249]
7 78 ms 76 ms 76 ms rrba-ip-lir-1-gig-0-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.43.8.198]
8 73 ms 74 ms 75 ms 196.43.25.138
9 74 ms 76 ms 100 ms internet-solutions-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.25.127.182]
10 73 ms 69 ms 68 ms 196.26.0.61
11 57 ms 55 ms 54 ms 168.209.100.242
12 54 ms 56 ms 54 ms csw1-b-jup-bry-gi3-1.ip.isnet.net [168.209.217.21]
13 53 ms 51 ms 48 ms strike.isgaming.co.za [196.38.180.25]
 
Last edited:
Shebam same boat as you. Also on Mweb but the 512 Uncapped option. First couple of weeks it ran great, 2 of us on one line getting 30-40ping on Counter-Strike source. Next weekend we were sitting on 300+. Seems to be getting worse with time as I have been unable to log into steam the last two days now. Trying to figure out if its isp related or congestion.

EDIT : IS CSS SERVER TRACERT

1 1 ms 9 ms 6 ms 192.168.0.254
2 9 ms 11 ms 8 ms 41-132-48-1.dsl.mweb.co.za [41.132.48.1]
3 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms tengig-0-0-0-104.vic-ipc-1.mweb.co.za [196.22.169.146]
4 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms vl-92.vic-hscore-2.mweb.co.za [196.22.189.3]
5 32 ms 33 ms 33 ms tengig-0-0-0-0-12.vic-up-1.mweb.co.za [196.22.169.241]
6 81 ms 81 ms 82 ms rrba-ip-hsll-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.25.8.249]
7 78 ms 76 ms 76 ms rrba-ip-lir-1-gig-0-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.43.8.198]
8 73 ms 74 ms 75 ms 196.43.25.138
9 74 ms 76 ms 100 ms internet-solutions-gw.telkom-ipnet.co.za [196.25.127.182]
10 73 ms 69 ms 68 ms 196.26.0.61
11 57 ms 55 ms 54 ms 168.209.100.242
12 54 ms 56 ms 54 ms csw1-b-jup-bry-gi3-1.ip.isnet.net [168.209.217.21]
13 53 ms 51 ms 48 ms strike.isgaming.co.za [196.38.180.25]

SyKs please check your PM - I would like to discuss this problem with you in a bit more detail.
 
My Tracert to a local page rigaming.za.net

1 11 ms 12 ms 12 ms 41-133-72-1.dsl.mweb.co.za [41.133.
2 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms tengig-0-0-0-100.vic-ipc-2.mweb.co.
3.206]
3 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms vl-92.vic-hscore-1.mweb.co.za [196.
4 58 ms 54 ms 72 ms tengig-0-0-0-0-11.vic-up-1.mweb.co.
9.225]
5 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms rrba-ip-hsll-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.
249]
6 98 ms 47 ms 47 ms 196.43.39.78
7 55 ms 49 ms 51 ms vl102.er.gw.cpt.za.wa.co.za [196.22
8 47 ms 49 ms 47 ms vl35.cr.gw.cpt.za.wa.co.za [41.185.
9 47 ms 47 ms 47 ms fe0.er1.gw.cpt.za.wadns.net [41.185
10 66 ms 65 ms 55 ms wa-acc1.wadns.net [196.220.39.253]
11 97 ms 57 ms 51 ms plesk8.wadns.net [196.220.57.101]

and my continuous ping to rigaming.za.net

Pinging rigaming.za.net [196.220.57.101] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=116ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=53ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=118ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=68ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=106ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=138ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=97ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=74ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=84ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=71ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=166ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=150ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=160ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=193ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=84ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=220ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=76ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=71ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=53
Reply from 196.220.57.101: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 196.220.57.101:
Packets: Sent = 61, Received = 61, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 47ms, Maximum = 220ms, Average = 74ms

For consistency i pinged www.mweb.co.za also:

Pinging www.mweb.co.za [196.2.63.110] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=130ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=69ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=108ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=76ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=114ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=141ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=108ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=78ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=127ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=55ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=107ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=763ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=69ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=153ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=94ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=751ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=94ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=52ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Request timed out.
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=225ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=143ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=123ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=55ms TTL=118
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=118

Ping statistics for 196.2.63.110:
Packets: Sent = 104, Received = 103, Lost = 1 (0% loss),
Minimum = 46ms, Maximum = 763ms, Average = 75ms
 
Last edited:
My Tracert to a local page rigaming.za.net

1 11 ms 12 ms 12 ms 41-133-72-1.dsl.mweb.co.za [41.133.
2 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms tengig-0-0-0-100.vic-ipc-2.mweb.co.
3.206]
3 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms vl-92.vic-hscore-1.mweb.co.za [196.
4 58 ms 54 ms 72 ms tengig-0-0-0-0-11.vic-up-1.mweb.co.
9.225]
5 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms rrba-ip-hsll-1-wan.telkom-ipnet.co.
249]
6 98 ms 47 ms 47 ms 196.43.39.78
7 55 ms 49 ms 51 ms vl102.er.gw.cpt.za.wa.co.za [196.22
8 47 ms 49 ms 47 ms vl35.cr.gw.cpt.za.wa.co.za [41.185.
9 47 ms 47 ms 47 ms fe0.er1.gw.cpt.za.wadns.net [41.185
10 66 ms 65 ms 55 ms wa-acc1.wadns.net [196.220.39.253]
11 97 ms 57 ms 51 ms plesk8.wadns.net [196.220.57.101]

..

As a comparison, here's the trace for Wazzup unshaped uncapped (SAIX based):
Tracing route to rigaming.za.net [196.220.57.101]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 21 ms 42 ms 20 ms 1.24.177.41-discover.co.za [41.177.24.1]
2 40 ms 55 ms 42 ms 196.6.121.38-backbone.cybersmart.co.za [196.6.12
1.38]
3 23 ms 63 ms 22 ms 198.32.214.45
4 24 ms 63 ms 26 ms vl40.cr.gw.cpt.za.wa.co.za [41.185.0.97]
5 54 ms 26 ms 24 ms fe0.er1.gw.cpt.za.wadns.net [41.185.0.4]
6 39 ms 26 ms 23 ms wa-acc1.wadns.net [196.220.39.253]
7 24 ms 26 ms 26 ms plesk8.wadns.net [196.220.57.101]

Trace complete.
 
As a side note:

Several players on our servers who are also on mweb have been talking about the same issue, especially mweb players playing on servers hosted with mweb accounts. And again, normal downloads are still lightning fast, maxing out at around 420K/s and staying there. Just tested downloading ubuntu and it flies. I find it quite puzzling, but then again my technical knowledge of these things is somewhat limited.

Thanks again for all the help so far Will
 
No problem Shebam, I hope we can figure this one out. Thanks for the nice detailed troubleshooting info from all concerned - I will take this back to our network engineers on Monday and see if we can get an understanding of what's causing this.
 
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