My Experience in Online Start-up

Craft said:
My little adventure started last year.

I saw an opportunity in developing an online craft market/village that could sell handmade products, provide crafters with their own dedicated craft page, link their social media to the dedicated craft page, further more link crafters to markets and provide articles and stories of people, places, and anything of interest really.

This bit is not aimed at bringing developers down, but only to share my experience and hope someone can learn from it. Fortunately there are amazing developers out there, but it is finding the right one for your online business.

If I had to think back to when I started this project, I admit there were many failures, one BIG unfortunate failure; the developer! This project has been in the hands of two developers and I can honestly say that if you don't have a semi-working draft piece within the first two weeks of commencing the project, you may have a huge problem nearer to the actual launch.

I often found that the developer steered the project in a direction of complexity and away from the original requirements and often this delayed the launched. My advice is to ensure your requirements are well documented to help prevent this. I did have a very detailed spec and that did help me a lot in the times the developer had steered the project in a different direction. I do believe now why he tried changing the direction was for the fact he couldn't actually do certain pieces of work.

Edit: just to add to this, don't be afraid in using existing platforms (CMS); provided you have someone that can customise willingly. I should have chosen this route right from the word go, instead I chose a full on custimised site which was a bad idea (in my opinion).

It really helps finding a developer near to you, having one 14 hours away makes things a bit more challenging. You can't just quickly meet over a coffee or meal to see the progress, discuss any issues or work through a piece of work. I did this with the second developer and it make the world of difference.

Also keep in mind that if your website is customised, mobile responsive development does take time, so allow for that extra development time.

8 days before launching my website (launch date 1st March), the developer had absconded - I have no words to explain what it was like. How do you even plan for that!

In March, I took on a new developer and we launched beginning of the week, it only took 2 months apposed to 6 months...

It has been a long road, and in some way worth it. Don't ever give up or it will never be yours to have.

Craft
http://www.craftersvillage.co.za
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity how much did that website cost you?

Including the web developer that went rogue.
 
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Capdase said:
Out of curiosity how much did that website cost you?

Including the web developer that went rogue.
Click to expand...

In total I have already spent over R24 000.00, this includes some of the fees paid to the dodge developer, the graphic designer and then to the second developer who had completed my website, he lowered his price to try and help which I was very grateful for ;).
 
Craft said:
In total I have already spent over R24 000.00, this includes some of the fees paid to the dodge developer, the graphic designer and then to the second developer who had completed my website, he lowered his price to try and help which I was very grateful for ;).
Click to expand...


24K is what currently developer's charge for ecommerce site. Are you getting client's though?
 
pratlou said:
24K is what currently developer's charge for ecommerce site. Are you getting client's though?
Click to expand...

I have had clients purchasing.

Now that I'm 'open', I have to focus more on the marketing though.
 
24k is quite steep In my humble opinion.

Why did you go with default font?

Have you maybe considered using a nice open sans font? I'm going off topic but I think that could add a nice touch ^_^
 
Capdase said:
24k is quite steep In my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

R24k is really steep if you aren't sure about the concept/idea.

Depending on who you talk to, you will find people that will do a site for you for around R20k (sort of like what you've found) going all the way up to R100k, R200k or more. It can get quite insane, and for a small shop starting out that needs to secure an audience, as OP has already realised, the cash that you have is better spent on marketing.

Personally, there are a number of Cloud/Hosted ecommerce platforms out there that will give you exactly what you have now for around R1000 per month. So basically 2 years worth of what has been spent on the current site. Shopify is reasonable for the local market (i.e. is one of the few that actually integrates into a South African payment gateway), and the local partner (who I haven't actually used but who I'm looking to use on my next shop) uafrica.com, will give it to you in Rands (which is much better when the Rand tanks, which seems to be happening alot lately).

I've used the Shopify platform and I find it great for managing products, reporting and all the back-end tools it provides in addition to the front-end site. It is really lacking in some regards - e.g. I can't believe it doesn't come with a ready-made Wishlist, and some of the default shipping options can be a bit restrictive (like not letting you determine a rate for a combination of weight and location - you can only pick one). However it comes with a truck load of themes that you can invest in / get for free to design your own look and feel for your site, as well as a huge selection of third-party apps that you can use. The benefit of this is that they are bolt on, many are free, and those that have a charge usually let you trial them out first anyway. Prevents you having to spend even MORE cash when you decide you want a new feature for your site. My other gripe with Shopify is that I don't really like the integration to Payfast - I think it makes the checkout process unnecessarily long - not overly complicated, but just too many clicks. It could be alot simpler and I'm really surprised it isnt.

In addition to Shopify, there is at least 1 local company copying the idea for the local market, however they market so badly that I cannot currently find them. I know that they have been on the receiving end of some venture capital and so if they could streamline my checkout process and come in at a competitive price point, I'd seriously look into that....if I can ever find them again :P The drawback there would probably be a slightly less mature platform, with less apps, and less/no/very basic only themes.

TL: DR - ecommerce is exploding and custom development is a no-no unless you are so massive that you can warrant doing it for competitive advantage. As a small online retailer, your competitive advantage is not going to be a custom developed site in most instances, so spend the cash elsewhere like marketing and stock and reduce the risk associated with getting your site off the ground.
 
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Markd said:
R24k is really steep if you aren't sure about the concept/idea.

Depending on who you talk to, you will find people that will do a site for you for around R20k (sort of like what you've found) going all the way up to R100k, R200k or more. It can get quite insane, and for a small shop starting out that needs to secure an audience, as OP has already realised, the cash that you have is better spent on marketing.

Personally, there are a number of Cloud/Hosted ecommerce platforms out there that will give you exactly what you have now for around R1000 per month. So basically 2 years worth of what has been spent on the current site. Shopify is reasonable for the local market (i.e. is one of the few that actually integrates into a South African payment gateway), and the local partner (who I haven't actually used but who I'm looking to use on my next shop) uafrica.com, will give it to you in Rands (which is much better when the Rand tanks, which seems to be happening alot lately).

I've used the Shopify platform and I find it great for managing products, reporting and all the back-end tools it provides in addition to the front-end site. It is really lacking in some regards - e.g. I can't believe it doesn't come with a ready-made Wishlist, and some of the default shipping options can be a bit restrictive (like not letting you determine a rate for a combination of weight and location - you can only pick one). However it comes with a truck load of themes that you can invest in / get for free to design your own look and feel for your site, as well as a huge selection of third-party apps that you can use. The benefit of this is that they are bolt on, many are free, and those that have a charge usually let you trial them out first anyway. Prevents you having to spend even MORE cash when you decide you want a new feature for your site. My other gripe with Shopify is that I don't really like the integration to Payfast - I think it makes the checkout process unnecessarily long - not overly complicated, but just too many clicks. It could be alot simpler and I'm really surprised it isnt.

In addition to Shopify, there is at least 1 local company copying the idea for the local market, however they market so badly that I cannot currently find them. I know that they have been on the receiving end of some venture capital and so if they could streamline my checkout process and come in at a competitive price point, I'd seriously look into that....if I can ever find them again :P The drawback there would probably be a slightly less mature platform, with less apps, and less/no/very basic only themes.

TL: DR - ecommerce is exploding and custom development is a no-no unless you are so massive that you can warrant doing it for competitive advantage. As a small online retailer, your competitive advantage is not going to be a custom developed site in most instances, so spend the cash elsewhere like marketing and stock and reduce the risk associated with getting your site off the ground.
Click to expand...

+1

In the past Payfast required a paying customer to create an account with them. Not so anymore if I am not mistaken?

Can you link to some of the stores you run? Thanks.
 
Jozsef Borbely said:
+1

In the past Payfast required a paying customer to create an account with them. Not so anymore if I am not mistaken?

Can you link to some of the stores you run? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes the account requirement was insane to be frank. It was really confusing for customers that might want to have an account on my site (so they make one), then go through checkout, and need to create ANOTHER account to pay. The one thing we dont want to be doing is making it harder to take money, so I'm glad they came to their senses at last and sort of sorted that out.

Imo it's still too many clicks. This doesnt seem to be an issue for customers because they come and convert sales, but it could be better. You basically need to leave the shop to go to a Payfast page, process payment, and then get redirected to the shop. It would be better if you never left. But it could be worse.

My main shop is in my sig.
 
Markd said:
Yes the account requirement was insane to be frank. It was really confusing for customers that might want to have an account on my site (so they make one), then go through checkout, and need to create ANOTHER account to pay. The one thing we dont want to be doing is making it harder to take money, so I'm glad they came to their senses at last and sort of sorted that out.

Imo it's still too many clicks. This doesnt seem to be an issue for customers because they come and convert sales, but it could be better. You basically need to leave the shop to go to a Payfast page, process payment, and then get redirected to the shop. It would be better if you never left. But it could be worse.

My main shop is in my sig.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The less clicks the better and it would be great if the customer never left the site. Especially in SA where there is a general distrust still of people and on-line purchasing.

Great shop and site!!! I have four questions:
1- What fulfilment method do you use. i.e. say I had to buy a bag of dog food how would it be delivered, if there was an issue do you have staff to deal with the issue or do it all yourself?
2- Have you found http://www.yuppiepet.co.za/ effecting your business at all?
3- How do you go about marketing your site. Do you use facebook darkposts and audience insights by any chance?
4- I see you can sign up to a newsletter. Have you found much ROI from that.
 
Jozsef Borbely said:
Agreed. The less clicks the better and it would be great if the customer never left the site. Especially in SA where there is a general distrust still of people and on-line purchasing.

Great shop and site!!! I have four questions:
1- What fulfilment method do you use. i.e. say I had to buy a bag of dog food how would it be delivered, if there was an issue do you have staff to deal with the issue or do it all yourself?
2- Have you found http://www.yuppiepet.co.za/ effecting your business at all?
3- How do you go about marketing your site. Do you use facebook darkposts and audience insights by any chance?
4- I see you can sign up to a newsletter. Have you found much ROI from that.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

So if you look at the size of an industry, and consider that roughly 1% of retail sales in SA are done online and then apply that to your industry, then consider your target market and average margin, and divide that amongst the number of online competitors in the space, the harsh picture is that a small online store in SA is not self-sustaining in many instances. And by that I mean it needs a source of funds on an ongoing basis to grow and keep you alive. It doesn't seem like many people have looked into this, because stores are born and die constantly.

1. Couriers. We deal with any issues ourselves
2. Nope. There are tons of competitors out there. We focus on growing our customer base and keeping existing customers happy.
3. Adwords (generally not a profit generator when looking at spend/sales generated on a monthly basis, but good for customer acquisition) Social Media campaigns (probably a weak area, as the ROI is so horrible, I know we've been doing it wrong)
4. Emailing costs you nothing except time, so the ROI is great. The challenge is growing a quality list.
 
Capdase said:
24k is quite steep In my humble opinion.

Why did you go with default font?

Have you maybe considered using a nice open sans font? I'm going off topic but I think that could add a nice touch ^_^
Click to expand...

Hey Capdase, honestly we were pressured for time. I wanted the site to have it's own unique font, but managed to have the headers unique. I too noticed that if users used IE it actually didn't matter because they wouldn't even see the font I wanted.

I quite like the different font, but different platforms don't seem to support it. (Only from what I have seen)
 
Markd said:
R24k is really steep if you aren't sure about the concept/idea.

Depending on who you talk to, you will find people that will do a site for you for around R20k (sort of like what you've found) going all the way up to R100k, R200k or more. It can get quite insane, and for a small shop starting out that needs to secure an audience, as OP has already realised, the cash that you have is better spent on marketing.

Personally, there are a number of Cloud/Hosted ecommerce platforms out there that will give you exactly what you have now for around R1000 per month. So basically 2 years worth of what has been spent on the current site. Shopify is reasonable for the local market (i.e. is one of the few that actually integrates into a South African payment gateway), and the local partner (who I haven't actually used but who I'm looking to use on my next shop) uafrica.com, will give it to you in Rands (which is much better when the Rand tanks, which seems to be happening alot lately).

I've used the Shopify platform and I find it great for managing products, reporting and all the back-end tools it provides in addition to the front-end site. It is really lacking in some regards - e.g. I can't believe it doesn't come with a ready-made Wishlist, and some of the default shipping options can be a bit restrictive (like not letting you determine a rate for a combination of weight and location - you can only pick one). However it comes with a truck load of themes that you can invest in / get for free to design your own look and feel for your site, as well as a huge selection of third-party apps that you can use. The benefit of this is that they are bolt on, many are free, and those that have a charge usually let you trial them out first anyway. Prevents you having to spend even MORE cash when you decide you want a new feature for your site. My other gripe with Shopify is that I don't really like the integration to Payfast - I think it makes the checkout process unnecessarily long - not overly complicated, but just too many clicks. It could be alot simpler and I'm really surprised it isnt.

In addition to Shopify, there is at least 1 local company copying the idea for the local market, however they market so badly that I cannot currently find them. I know that they have been on the receiving end of some venture capital and so if they could streamline my checkout process and come in at a competitive price point, I'd seriously look into that....if I can ever find them again :P The drawback there would probably be a slightly less mature platform, with less apps, and less/no/very basic only themes.

TL: DR - ecommerce is exploding and custom development is a no-no unless you are so massive that you can warrant doing it for competitive advantage. As a small online retailer, your competitive advantage is not going to be a custom developed site in most instances, so spend the cash elsewhere like marketing and stock and reduce the risk associated with getting your site off the ground.
Click to expand...

Hey Markd, thanks for your input - very interesting!

I am a start up e-commerce, how do you market your site, i.e. platforms?

I am finding facebook to be one of the most inexpensive forms of advertising, and probably most successful at this stage, but have you tried other means?
 
Jozsef Borbely said:
+1

In the past Payfast required a paying customer to create an account with them. Not so anymore if I am not mistaken?

Can you link to some of the stores you run? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I am using payfast for my e-commerce, and I do prefer that a client doesn't have to create an account with them is great. Yes the client will be redirected to their site, but actually from a POPI (Protection of Personal Information) perspective, I would rather they handle it and not me.
 
Markd said:
Thanks!

So if you look at the size of an industry, and consider that roughly 1% of retail sales in SA are done online and then apply that to your industry, then consider your target market and average margin, and divide that amongst the number of online competitors in the space, the harsh picture is that a small online store in SA is not self-sustaining in many instances. And by that I mean it needs a source of funds on an ongoing basis to grow and keep you alive. It doesn't seem like many people have looked into this, because stores are born and die constantly.

1. Couriers. We deal with any issues ourselves
2. Nope. There are tons of competitors out there. We focus on growing our customer base and keeping existing customers happy.
3. Adwords (generally not a profit generator when looking at spend/sales generated on a monthly basis, but good for customer acquisition) Social Media campaigns (probably a weak area, as the ROI is so horrible, I know we've been doing it wrong)
4. Emailing costs you nothing except time, so the ROI is great. The challenge is growing a quality list.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if this is relevant to you, but I am using DawnWing and so far they are very competitive for e-commerce sites?
 
Craft said:
I'm not sure if this is relevant to you, but I am using DawnWing and so far they are very competitive for e-commerce sites?
Click to expand...
Any idea if they integrate with nopcommerce? We use road freight companies as most of our parcels are quite large and none seem to integrate with nopcommerce. Have to had to make a plan to integrate with time freight but looking for other solutions. We
 
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