MyADSL Observation - said/raised before?

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celeborn

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<?myRant
Over the last few months I have been reading the forum almost daily - even prior to myself and the company I work for getting ADSL - and time and again have noticed that many of the topics have been rants and comparisons to first world countries, <b>AND RIGHTLY SO</b>!

However, comparing third world economies to first world economies <u>does not work</u>. I do agree that we are being shafted by our OH SO GLORIOUS TELCO, but doesn't anyone else see how pointless it is to continue to compare our costing to the rest of the world? And when doing these comparisons, using first world countries as your base?

Time and again people are forgetting that we are paying for the luxury of accessing US/European resources. That is the major cost, NOT local bandwidth. People need to start thinking outside the box. South Africa is a third world country, we are on the tip of a continent that is still considered The Dark Continent. If you want 512Kb/s GIB/CIR* (international) then be prepared to pay R60K+

* GIB == Guaranteed International Bandwidth
* CIR == Committed Information Rate
?&gt;

Having said that (READ: whined), I believe that people are starting to get a clue. The fact that a local DirectConnect HUB has been started up is testimony to that. We are not going to get anywhere by sitting around acting like Have-Nots. I'm not saying that we need to take Telkom's **** lying down, but I DO believe that we need to use the tools we've been given. It was almost a year ago when the most b/w the average home user had available was only an 1/8 of what we have available to us now - even at the shocking service levels we've been expected to put up with. I for one feel that this is a huge step forward, rather than a step back.

Just a few thoughts. Flames and other stupid comments will be ignored! [:D]

Celery
 
...Malaysia... a 1st world country ? =) Telkom want to compete on the global market by being listed on the stock exchange... i think that gives us the right to rant on a bit bout their competition.

not a flame, just my opinion. =)

Bottom line, is we are being shafted, so we are gonna bitch and moan, and try make their life difficult... thats the point. [^]
 
Good you made the statement.

Telkom's own rate structure says it all:

Line rental is R680/R800 per month depending on you being a household or business.

Bandwidth fees = "Prolog" = R219 per month.

The line rental fee does not include any bandwidth. It is just for the privilage of Telkom connecting your line to ADSL hardware in their exchange.

The bandwidth fee includes all the bandwidth costs - local and international.

Remember, If Telkom was "mixing" the cost of bandwidth with line rental, the other ISP's could complain about anti-competitve behaviour. So it is save to state that bandwidth charges are minimal.

There is no reason why the line rental should be so high. A friend in Germany pays the German Telko a mere E20 (around R160) per month for line rental for his home connection. This hardware in an exchange. Stuff where distance etc is the same for South Africa and Germany.

In short: Telkom hides behind a lot of excuses that are distortions of the reality once one gets to analyse them properly.

RPM met wtih Telkom many months ago. They blamed hom for being instrumental in distributing false information on ADSL. Up to now they failed in substantiating that claim in any manner.

If there was anything on this forum worthwhile taking on, Telkom's layers would have knocked on RPM's door.








South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.
 
It was actually the Malaysia post that prompted me to start the topic. We <b>should</b> be comparing costs to those of Malaysia, China etc NOT the US, Europe and other more developed East Asian nations. However in the same vein we mustn't forget that for most of those developing economies it's almost literally just a hop, skip and a jump to the first world. We on the other hand have the rest of the Dark Continent "above" us and two oceans on either side.

Celery
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by celeborn</i><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hi celeborn,

<font color="blue"><i>...However, comparing third world economies to first world economies does not work...</i></font id="blue">

There's an hotel in Mozambique where they charge US250.00 per night, because it is the only one in the town. They do not have hot water.

The local governor has an interest in this hotel and resists construction of any other accomodation.

I could write the whole story but I am sure you get the point.
btw - this is a true story ....
 
There are no doubts of the effects abuse of said monopoly has on the economy, and how important competition is - especially for the consumer. Hell, the best example of how competition will benefit us is the breakup of "Ma Bell" (Bell System) in the US. It lowered long distance pricing and allowed for innovation! I think Telkom should also take note that before the breakup they (Bell System) were only worth approx $59Billion as opposed to today where the combined value of the companies created out of Ma Bell value $810 Billion!

Admittedly the whole AT&T thing was on a much larger scale, and they had a far greater target market. However it does go to show just how benefitial competition can and will be [8D]

Celery
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by celeborn</i>
.... was almost a year ago when the most b/w the average home user had available was only an 1/8 of what we have available to us now - even at the shocking service levels we've been expected to put up with.....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It is true that Telkom has installed a large number of new fixed lines over the last years - <b>It is also true that some 70% of these services have been cut-off by Telkom because of non-payment.</b>(affordability).

An average family using necessary communications tools provided by our Govt., Telkom, Vodacom/MTN/Cell C, MNET/DSTV is being ripped off:

Take a family of 4:

TV costs MNET R 400.00 (SABC + MNET)
Telephone R 900.00 (Local calls only)
Internet adsl R1 000.00
Cell-phones R1 000.00 (3 phones x R333.00)

In South Africa = R3 300.00

A family in the States will get all of the above for
Less than R1000.00 per month.

Across the board we are being ripped off and this is not because of our location, but because of LAWS and regulations.

Work-arounds such as hubs, proxies etc. serve no purpose to over 99% of internet users and are inaccessible to those that cannot even afford connectivity - so this is no solution.

Deregulation is our best hope.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by celeborn</i>
<br />Time and again people are forgetting that we are paying for the luxury of accessing US/European resources. That is the major cost, NOT local bandwidth.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I can understand that overseas bandwidth is expensive (at least for South African). What I can't understand is why using Local Bandwidth counts towards the CAP. It implies that even if I used only 1KB of overseas bandwidth for the month and 2.999MB local, I still get penalised although the CAP impacts only International traffic.

kaspaas has a valid comment:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><br />Line rental is R680/R800 per month depending on you being a household or business.

Bandwidth fees = "Prolog" = R219 per month.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Now why do we get charged R680 for an existing copper line (don't forget the R79 for the same line for the telephone)? If the cost of another 3GB can be acquired for R219 (price of another account) then surely this is basically the cost of bandwidth?
Something doesn't make sense.


You don't know what you don't know.
Mux
 
I don't think South Africa is a third world country in terms of technology. OK, you might be slightly behind on when the latest tech is available, but if you look at systems such as banking systems, no. Once the lines are in place, the lines are in place. I don't think you need to give your service providers any more rope than they have by expecting 2nd grade service because you inhabit the tip of Africa.

They have the tech, they have the space, they have the money, they have no excuse - if they can offer you a broadband service in the first place, and then have the cheek to squeeze it, well, they're just milking the public cash-cow for as long as they can. If in the future (and the only way is through competitors) the price of band comes down, what is slowing that process down? Telkom's fat-cat second grade attitude towards its clients!

GhostMan
 
well didnt take the time 2 read every reply cos its a lot 2 read [:D] but i agree with ghostman. Also as i have heard from a few ppl south africa is actually a first and third world country if u look at our big cities so we are not that much behind on tech so we can be called a first world country but then again if u look at all the ppl that live in shacks and stuff that also makes us as a 3rd world country
 
I think the truth is somewhere between these arguments. I do agree that Telkom is ripping us of to a certain extent but to compare them with the UK and US is a bit unfair.

You must remember that these countries spent a lot of money on their infrastructure and internet bandwidth with the dot com boom which turned out to be a dot crash. They have so much bandwidth that they can afford to sell it at next to nothing.

But like has been mentioned before, the ISP charge is only R230 of the total charge for ADSL and I’m sure that is the only money that goes to Telkom internet. I think R650 is way too much and that R300 is probably more reasonable. I know some of you will say that is still too much but they have to invest in new equipment at their exchanges.

I think Telkom should let the ISP’s deal with the international bandwidth, that is what they pay for. At the moment they only provide customer service on what is essentially a Telkom service.
 
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