MySignal.exe

nroets · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ditch
I must say, the idea does seem 'wrong' to me that a modem could be damaged by sending it the 'wrong commands'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yep, I agree. The only damage I see happening is when little Bobby [8)] implants a coat hanger into Mr.Roberts' modem after they were unable to source the correct connectors from the technology partner.

I suggest we all run 'ping -n -1 www.etsi.org' wait for the evil [}

] site to be blocked.

TheRoDent · Mar 12, 2004

I'm not making an issue out of it. I'm attempting to discuss it.

Here are the reasons why I keep highlighting the issue:

1. "Scare" tactics is hardly necessary. If your intent was to spread disinformation about the AT&C1 issue, then, you've succeeded. Also, it has backfired. You may want to think before doing something like that again.

2. The moment people start hiding things and talk "proprietary" and CP I get antsy. That's just my nature, and here's some news: There are a ****load of people out there that think the way I do. You cannot wish it away, and I am entitled to exactly the same privilege as you: freedom of expression.

3. You keep on trying to assert that the information is proprietary in nature and that Sentech somehow "owns" it, when I have clearly proven that it is a public standard.

4. Nic Roets hasn't gotten involved in this because probably, he doesn't give a damn, since he runs Windows XP in any case. I give a damn.

5. If you believe that I "have chosen to throw all my toys out my cot and make an almighty issue out of something that never really concerned me in the first place" then you are making another rude assumption. The assumption that you can decide for me what is and what isn't my concern. I'm a MyWireless user. I have the modem. I have Linux. I have technical capabilities. You bet your ass it's my concern. And even if it weren't, well, let me repeat that "freedom of expression" phrase.

Let's not talk about "professional" behaviour anymore then. You've behaved very professionally up till this point, and I've had a lot of respect for you.

But I've lost all that now you've confessed that the AT&C1 issue was just a huge lie. Thanks for all the fish.

nroets · Mar 12, 2004

52a8c660316eca769645b5915445bddd

lewstherin · Mar 12, 2004

Rodent posting 3 pages of arguments/facts/opionated BS really doesn't earn you friends.
You're acting out of an individual capacity, whereas ProASM acts out of an official capacity most of time by providing us with Sentech information.

The key is that he actually has some responsibilities to shoulder here - he's risking his job and his credibility by giving us the info. You're risking NOTHING!

Step out of your little open source, freedom of information world, and meet the real world - ProASM is not some faceless avatar from across the world for you to slag. He's a real person with a real job taking a real risk. And whether or not its fair or legal or whatever, if his company doesn't want modem commands or such information released, then he has to play by their rules and ensure that he doesn't help that happen.

What you've done is take a program he's written with the intention of helping people, and thrown it back in his face.
YOU'VE MADE HIM COMPLICIT IN THIS BY PUSHING YOUR ISSUES, AND THE MORE YOU PUSH IT THE MORE YOU SCREW HIM.

If this forum did not have people like ProASM involved, then posting the info that you did would have been fine, because no one would be at risk of losing their job.
Get it into your head that in this forum, posting like you have could lose ProASM his postion. At least you're going to drive him away - and all cos you had to prove how RIGHT you are.

Grow up and realise that the real world is not as black and white as you have made it out to be.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

TheRoDent · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lewstherin
Grow up and realise that the real world is not as black and white as you have made it out to be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, you're saying that ProAsm spreading false information about the AT&C1 command (by his own admission) is OK with you? That's the real world mate. If in an official capacity you make false statements to "scare" consumers in a public forum, then by God I'm going to raze my hackles.

Your view is that of the typical South African consumer, and _that_ is what is allowing stifling behaviour to persist in this country.

I'd still like to know how ProAsm will get into trouble due to my/nroets making available already public knowledge on this forum, where the intention is to discuss "Sentech MyWireless". If I've been off-topic, please point it out.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The key is that he actually has some responsibilities to shoulder here - he's risking his job and his credibility by giving us the info. You're risking NOTHING!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, he does indeed risk his credibility when spreading false information. I'm risking just as much as he is, since on this forum, nobody knows exactly who he is, and he is just as much behind an alias as the rest of us. All we know is he works for Sentech and he's in Durban.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If this forum did not have people like ProASM involved, then posting the info that you did would have been fine, because no one would be at risk of losing their job.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, because he _is_ in this forum, I have to now tread lightly or keep my mouth shut? Dream on. It would destroy the entire point of _having_ this forum. I have done nothing illegal, and the information that has been shared here is nothing more than public knowledge. THAT is the real world

Take Deckert's sharing of the tower listings into account for instance. Deckert asked for something legitimate, got an answer, and shared it. Are we all going to live in fear in this forum and not share any information lest ProAsm be fired because he "may" be implicated?

ProAsm is a nice guy, and he's doing an amazing PR job here, for Sentech. But if the only opinion you're going to be listening to is HIS, then Sentech have just succeeded in a very clever ploy at controlling what is intended to be an open discussion.

Thanks for listening.

lewstherin · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm risking just as much as he is, since on this forum, nobody knows exactly who he is, and he is just as much behind an alias as the rest of us. All we know is he works for Sentech and he's in Durban. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sentech knows about ProASM's posting, they know exactly who he is dewd, so the whole "nobody knows exactly who he is" thing is junk. He does not have the luxury of anonymity as far as his employer goes, so he is risking far more.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the only opinion you're going to be listening to is HIS<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I work under similar constraints to ProASM as far as CP etc goes, so I understand his position, and I can understand his attempts at stonewalling on the modem commands. His information thus far has been brilliant, and you forced him into trying to cover up the modem issue. I mean who is seriously going to openly discuss things that his employer expressly does not want discussed, in plain view of his employer???

I also do agree with your points about the info being freely available etc, since free information does usually improve the problems. I just don't want that to result in ProASM leaving or losing his job.
You should rather take this issue up with Sentech and IPWireless directly, rather than hurting ProASM's chances in this forum and in his job.

Lets sum up this discussion once and for all:
Rodent is right about the modem command etc.
ProASM attempted to mute the info becos he would take the blame for Rodent's info.
Rodent proceeded to prove his point until ProASM left.

Everyone loses because now we're stuck with Rodent - who knows everything about modems and nothing about whats happening within Sentech.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

Myrrdin · Mar 12, 2004

Here I am going to have to side with TheRodent. Mao Tse Tung once said if you have to shake a man's hand to take his country you better make sure that you shake his hand very well. ProAsm knew the risks when he joined this forum as it seems now to be on behalf of Sentech. The moment he tried to manipulate the people's freedom of choice he was treading on very thin ice. Yes, admittedly we have probably lost a great source of knowledge, but I would rather live in ignorance than have someone regurgitate knowledge to me on a "need to know basis". We are all adults and free thinking people here or the forum would not have existed. The issues about Sentech trying to proclaim ownership of the modem commands rates right up there with Telkom saying they own TCP/IP about three years ago. The reason why our current domain .co.za resides outside of this country. So TheRodent, here is at least someone who agrees with you.

Swonk taht eno ylno eht si nidrrym.

lewstherin · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would rather live in ignorance than have someone regurgitate knowledge to me on a "need to know basis"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You guys are totally killing the messenger here. His information has been nothing short of excellent - to suggest he just regurgitates info is a serious diss...its likening him to a call centre consultant.

Take all these issues up with Sentech, not with ProASM. That way his Sentech managers will know that he is not providing the info, and hopefully he can still continue in the forum.
If he doesn't want to provide information then dont press him, rather let him continue to provide us with the information that he can.
ProASM: I think this topic has proven how far you can go when it comes to releasing info. Probably your best, safest course will be to provide the info that you can, and vehemently and publicly refuse comment on info you cant. Personally I hope that you can continue within the forum, since your optimism, excitement and input has made all the difference when it comes to my perceptions of MyWireless and Sentech.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

martin · Mar 12, 2004

C'mon guys, I honestly don't think anyone is plotting to manipulate the people's freedom of choice. Let's just lay down the facts:

- Sentech is monitoring these forums
- ProAsm is an employee of Sentech
- ProAsm no doubt would like to keep his job there
- ProAsm's help up to date has been helpful and unselfish in nature

I suspect the problem arose because info regarding the modem was published in the 'MySignal.exe' thread and will by many people automatically be associated with ProAsm and indirectly with Sentech.

This places Sentech in a position that they obviously don't want to be in and in turn jeopardises ProAsm career. ProAsm in turn needs to cover his ass as jobs are not particularly easy to come by.

I know most of us value ProAsm's input, so let's just try and be accomodating towards each other. I don't know what the mods opinion on this is, but maybe the solution is as follows: If you feel the need to post info that Sentech may not agree with, perhaps you should post in a thread you created? I'm sure in such a case Sentech cannot point any fingers at ProAsm. Would the moderators please comments on this.

Flame wars can be fun, but they're not particalarly helpful and rarely achieve anything useful.

nroets · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Myrrdin
Mao Tse Tung once said if you have to shake a man's hand to take his country you better make sure that you shake his hand very well. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 The man's whoose country most of the people on the forum wants to take is the telco monopolies / duopolies. So I think we should all be prepared to shake Sentech's hand very well. The Minister and ICASA are watching, and if they success, they'll continue granting licenses.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Myrrdin
 Here I am going to have to side with TheRodent.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cut your nose to spoil your face.

Myrrdin · Mar 12, 2004

Hi everyone.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The man's whoose country most of the people on the forum wants to take is the telco monopolies / duopolies. So I think we should all be prepared to shake Sentech's hand very well. The Minister and ICASA are watching, and if they success, they'll continue granting licenses.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

nroets you missed the point. See my other topic "We just can't win" for further details. Our goverment have created Sentech to come and shake your hand and offer you all wonderfull things while they are making you pay for broadband services that should have been available from Telkom (also state owned) at a cheaper rate or true competitors at a cheaper rate. (Sarcastic degenerate remark regarding noses in response to personal attack by nroets removed due to me being rather peeved at the moment of writing).

And as everyone failed to notice, dissing ProAsm, that was not my intention, but only to show that the people who really want to help and are great people in general are manipulated by our goverment at ALL times to restrict and control you more and more at every turn.

The mere fact that ProAsm was not free to release this info already shows to the monopolistic mindset inherent in a "state-owned" utility company. They take what is public domain as was highlighted by TheRoDent and proclaim ownership of it. Mark my words, in 12 months you will have the same problems with Sentech that the forum is currently experiencing with Telkom.

Swonk taht eno ylno eht si nidrrym.

lewstherin · Mar 12, 2004

I think its safe to say that the govt is screwing the country when it comes to telecommunications. Its also probably safe to say that this is not going to change soon.
So currently its a case of choosing the lesser of two evils - Sentech undoubtably being the lesser at this point.

I think assuming that Sentech's limits on modem info etc is due to "monopolistic mindset" is sheer speculation. They could simply have an IP agreement with IPWireless or something to that effect, and are hence simply honouring that agreement. Besides, requiring your employees to follow company policy (regardless of what its based on) is not monopolistic - its confidentiality policy.
There are several things my company will not allow me to disclose - despite the fact that the information is freely available, and my company is a software development house in a highly competitive market.

I would like nothing more than to see a freely competitive telcoms market in this country...however until it materialises, we've got to make do - and bringing down guys like ProASM, who are showing that all is not lost in state companies, doesnt help.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

nroets · Mar 12, 2004

Telkom is nearly completely privatized. SBC communications and the other private shareholders will not allow the directors to make unnecessary concessions to any state owned company. It's merely busy optimising it's own profit.

One way of doing this is lobbying the Minister and ICASA to restrict, and delay new telecoms licenses. If MyWireless is a disaster, they will be first to point to it and say if SenTech can't do it, then Eskom, Transtel, and any other applicant can't do it.

If MyWireless is a success, and many residents of Alex or Soweto are using it without a hitch, the Minister may well go ahead and issue many more 3G licenses.

TheRoDent · Mar 12, 2004

Myrrdin, I agree. I think Nic may have interpreted your post incorrectly.

Martin, you are correct too, in your summation. The fact is though, that certain things "damaging to your modem" were stated in this thread, which are apparently untrue. Also the Copyprotected, and "Intellectual Property" nature of the information was overstated, possibly so that Sentech wouldn't have to deal with users with brains... (Wouldn't it be great if we dealt with support staff with brains?)

That is my beef. Hiding facts, and obfuscating the reality is not the way to gain a community or end-users' trust. It's the worst thing one can possibly do. And that is why I've been so vociferous in promoting the truth behind these statements.

TheRoDent · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If MyWireless is a success, and many residents of Alex or Soweto are using it without a hitch, the Minister may well go ahead and issue many more 3G licenses.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why should that be the qualifying factor behind being allowed to deploy new technology? The only reason Sentech was allowed to do the 3G thing, is because of a "loophole" in their Multimedia license.

And they've taken advantage of it. If we had a proper free market, we'd already have another 2 Sentech MyWireless competitors, if they could manage to make a profit in the market.

Sentech might sound like the "god save our bandwidth, finally an alternative" company, but let's face it. They got their license through "inheritance" and the fact that they're still a government owned entity. However hi-tec Sentech may appear, they are _still_ a government parastatal, with a license, and position to abuse. The same way Telkom has, for numerous years.

silversurfer · Mar 12, 2004

oh please just grow up dewd. The search for 'truth' as you so gallantly put it... has a cost. A cost that 99% of us DO NOT want, but cos your so 'right', we bare that cost. How many times do we have to say... yay... your right. now drop it. We appreciate proasm input. you have your truth, now go enjoy it elsewhere.

Anyone notice proasm not posting anythign since this spat? Your living up to your nic.

TheRoDent · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lewstherin
 
I think assuming that Sentech's limits on modem info etc is due to "monopolistic mindset" is sheer speculation. They could simply have an IP agreement with IPWireless or something to that effect, and are hence simply honouring that agreement. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fact is, that the commandset, is NON-DAMAGING to modems (contrary to what ProAsm stated) and it _is_ publically available.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Besides, requiring your employees to follow company policy (regardless of what its based on) is not monopolistic - its confidentiality policy.
There are several things my company will not allow me to disclose - despite the fact that the information is freely available, and my company is a software development house in a highly competitive market.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK, let's take something as simple as opening a TCP/IP socket in Windows. The standard is there, it's open, it's well know. But because your company has got a connect() function call in their software they're going to claim IP on all socket functions?

That's what we're talking about here. The commandset to a modem that's well-documented and ratified by a standards body. How on earth can you believe that claiming IP to that, is useful whatsoever?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
bringing down guys like ProASM, who are showing that all is not lost in state companies, doesnt help.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My intent was never to "bring down ProAsm". My intent was to prove that:

1. He was not communicating the truth to this forum (by his own admission)

2. That anynone should be free to discuss whatever matters they choose, without fear of sensorship, as long as it's lawful.

3. You shouldn't believe everything you read on a forum, until you're capable of making, and arguing about an informed decision by yourself.

ProAsm made all of us believe that sending the single string "AT&C1" to your wireless modem would fry it, and break your modem irreparably.

He made us believe that the command set is under some "protection" and "copyright" clause.

In doing that, he graded me, and a good deal of this forum's population as the average computing 'pleb', not worthy of technical information.

In doing so, he has done exactly what a corporation like Telkom has been able to get away with all these years: Ignoring the educated end-user because they're just a "number".

I don't believe he did any of this with evil intent. Instead I think he was simply protecting his own interests, and also probably did it because he wasn't sure as to the legalities, which I can understand.This clearly illustrates the problem that companies will have when attempting to deal with educated users that can read more than a page of printed text per day. And it's probably the reason why most of them, such as Telkom, and Sentech prefer not to.

But when I get attacked for protecting the general technical interest in this forum, simply because ProAsm is perceived as a "good guy" I will not relinquish.

In the end, if ProAsm decides to leave this forum for good, it might not be such a bad thing. Perhaps we will have more "true" perceptions of Sentech's bad service such as a number of people have experienced, but have been too "nice" to report.

A number of people in these forums have been very dissatisfied with Sentech's service (when it comes to applying), and with coverage facts, and numerous issues. Yet they've all been downplayed because "Sentech can't possibly be as evil as Telkom", and "ProAsm is a nice Sentech guy that helps"

This doesn't change the fact that there are real issues with the service at this point (instability, bad latency, incompetent technical support, etc...)

These are the facts behind Sentech MyWireless at the moment. It's not all sunshine and roses as everyone claims.

TheRoDent · Mar 12, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by silversurfer
 oh please just grow up dewd. The search for 'truth' as you so gallantly put it... has a cost. A cost that 99% of us DO NOT want, but cos your so 'right', we bare that cost. How many times do we have to say... yay... your right. now drop it. We appreciate proasm input. you have your truth, now go enjoy it elsewhere.

Anyone notice proasm not posting anythign since this spat? Your living up to your nic.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I also haven't seen ProAsm making a single good argument to back up any of his previous claims.

I have. Try again. And by the way, my team still owns HzO in Tribes 2

How's that for a "non grown up" statement?

If you want me rid of this forum, then it's going to take a lot more than just insulting me. Perhaps you should lower yourself and start a thread to lobby rpm to ban me, if that will make you happy. Then you'll be just as cool as Rob Mugabe.

Sliver · Mar 12, 2004

Well said Rodent, i have also believed a lot of the stuff ProAsm has being saying, and i do believe him to be a very inteligent person, but unfortunately blatently spreading information that he knew was false cause me to question the credibility of his information.

And as for these people slating TheRodent and asking him to grow up, where the hell do you get off thinking you can slate someone that has done nothing but provide a very high level HONEST technical opinion. Most of us here are now MyWireless customers or will soon be, we have the right to know whats going on, we have the right to know what our hardware is capable of.

Who ever sperted out the *** that TheRodent is at no risk must seriously think before they post, is he not bound to a 24 month contract, if he believes he is not getting all he should get from his money is he not entitled to endeavour to get more out of it ? I know that i would like my signal strength to go up, i know i would like to be able to get my pings down and stable, TheRodent is supplying technical information and assistance that may just help me on the road to my goals, ProAsm has done the same with antenna tests and the signal tool, and i am eternally grateful for the effort he has put into the community, but other people are intitled to advance the product in their own way and i would expect anyone trying to help out should get the same kind of recognition.

As for ProAsm losing his anonymity, it was his choice, he chose to let us know he was a sentech employee, he chooses to let information out to us, does he have sentechs permission for this or not ??? I don't know, do you ?

I have no issues with ProAsm, i have an issue with people slating TheRodent with no valid arguement, if ProAsm wants to leave because he feels threatened by someone that has a valid arguement with technical info to back the arguement up in my mind let him go. We can never have enough knowledge on the forum, and the way people get slated just becuase they argue someone elses opinion that everyone thinks is the most knowledgable is SICK, shame on you people. Without sharing knowledge we will all remain blind and the product will never progress !!!!

lewstherin · Mar 12, 2004

Fine whatever ppl...obviously truth has no price, and screw anyone that stands to lose their livelihood. Thats a great way to polarise a forum designed to unite [

]

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

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