Nato Pledges 'Impartial' Air Power Over Libya

Alan

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
62,474
Reaction score
2,588
Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen insists the operational mandate is only to protect civilians in accordance with UN resolution 1973 and not to force Colonel Gaddafi from power.

Nato has now taken over command and control of the Libya mission amid accusations that coalition airstrikes have helped the rebels and could be responsible for creating the conditions for a prolonged civil war.

Since the strikes have started - coming from the air and sea - the rebels' advance towards Tripoli has been swift.

No longer backed up in Benghazi, anti-Gaddafi fighters have been able to swarm through strategic towns like Brega and Ras Lanuf.

No-one will say it officially but it is hard to argue away the evidence that the coalition seems to be taking sides.

Gaddafi's tanks and APCs lie destroyed along the roadside. Many of them are nowhere near civilian areas.

Meanwhile, on the political front, the French have officially recognised the Libyan National Council in the east as the official government of the country.

Paris claims the council represents the "will of the people".

How far have the rebels advanced?

It is an interesting development as we still do not know what civilians in cities like Sirte and Tripoli really want as independent witnesses - and the French government - have not been able to gain access.

Although the UN resolution is open to interpretation it does not allow the provision of air support for rebel fighters.

Intentionally or otherwise that has clearly happened.

Some Nato members - notably Turkey and Germany - are uncomfortable with the way the strikes have been carried out.

A Rafale fighter jet returns from a mission on the flight deck of France's flagship Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier

Coalition air strikes have targeted Gaddafi's artillery

The claim is they are far from being impartial and are a thinly disguised method of prosecuting regime change against Colonel Gaddafi.

There is also the question of legality.

Middle East expert Rosemary Hollis explains: "It was fairly straightforward under the UN resolution to fire on military forces sent by the Gaddafi regime to kill and suppress rebels in Benghazi.

"It's a different matter when you have rebels taking on members of the regime in full battle on the ground. There is a legal issue of who are the civilians you are trying to protect."

A rebel fighter rests on a pick up truck with a mounted weapon during a break on the road between Ras Lanuf and Bin Jawad in Libya

The rebels have swept west since the coalition began its air strikes

As the rebels approach the Gaddafi stronghold of Sirte this analysis will become a much bigger issue.

It also begs the question: When does a rebel advance in the name of freedom become an act of aggression?

It may very well be that the airstrikes will become more limited under Nato control.

Certainly there have been calls from the Turkish for a stricter interpretation of the "rules of engagement".

The next few days will of course tell us what kind of role Nato will play when the alliance's planes start to police the skies.

SKY

So if the rebels, some of whom are Al Qaeda fighters, start attacking civilians, perhaps members of tribes loyal to Gaddaif, as they enter into government controlled territory NATO will start bombing them too.

What a farce this could turn out to be :o
 
Yea, NATO just throw of the disguise and start bombing Gaddafi forces openly.We know you want to and this is the only solution to the problems in Libya.
 
I wonder if this NATO air power will be as "impartial" as it was in Yugoslavia in 1999: "2500 Civilians killed, 89 of which were children."
 
If NATO do take out all of the heavy weaponry it can only be a good thing. There is no guarantee that the next 'supreme leader of all he can see' will be any less of a nut job than the current Michael Jackson wannabe.
 
The rebels continue to retreat.

BENGHAZI, Libya — Rebel fighters continued a hasty retreat Wednesday from coastal towns they captured days earlier, as forces loyal to Moammar Gaddafi bombarded them with rockets and mortars.

After having been driven back from the town of Bin Jawwad on Tuesday, the rebels retreated through the oil hubs of Ras Lanuf and Brega on Wednesday en route to the strategic city of Ajdabiya, fighters reported. Rebels in a motley assortment of vehicles raced eastward on both lanes of the coastal highway toward Ajdabiya after coming under shelling in Brega from the more heavily armed Gaddafi forces, witnesses said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-eastern-libya/2011/03/30/AFaO1K3B_story.html


So now they're talking about arming the rebels.

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Wednesday that his country also does not rule out supplying arms to the rebels but has not yet decided whether to do so. He told Parliament that a U.N. arms embargo applies to all of Libya although arms deliveries could be justified under a March 17 U.N. Security Council resolution that authorized a no-fly zone over Libya and “all necessary measures” to protect civilians.

I know Barry wanted to be the antipathy of Bush but arming al Qaeda fighters lol......

EDIT: More from SKY
Anti-government fighters retreated by 100 miles in just a few hours as Nato planes bombarded Gaddafi's forces.

In the latest blow to morale for the outgunned insurgents, they have have been driven back from positions they had occupied in the past few days, including Bin Jawad.

Some fighters, mostly armed with light weapons and riding on 4x4 pick-ups, said they had been overwhelmed by the superior firepower and range of Gaddafi's weaponry.

Sky's security editor Sam Kiley said the rebels lost Ras Lanuf because the coalition was reluctant to carry out airstrikes on troops loyal to Col Gaddafi.

In Tripoli, Sky's Jeremy Thompson said Gaddafi supporters had been heard celebrating the dramatic reversal of fortune.

It came as UK Prime Minister David Cameron joined the US President in refusing to rule out the possibility of supplying arms to opposition fighters.

On Tuesday the US officer in charge of the mission in Libya, Admiral James Stavridis, claimed there were "flickers" of al Qaeda and Hizbollah within the rebel opposition.

However, David Cameron's spokesman disagreed with this and said: "We are in the process of speaking to these people and learning more about their intentions.

"They set out their position very clearly and it did not suggest an extremist agenda."
 
Last edited:
If I recall correctly, we went into Libya – or, at any rate, over Libya – to stop the brutal Gadhafi dictatorship killing the Libyan people. And, thanks to our efforts, a whole new mass movement of freedom-loving democrats now has the opportunity to kill the Libyan people. As the Los Angeles Times reported from Benghazi, gangs of young gunmen are roaming the city "rousting Libyan blacks and immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa from their homes and holding them for interrogation as suspected mercenaries or government spies." According to the New York Times, "Members of the NATO alliance have sternly warned the rebels in Libya not to attack civilians as they push against the regime of Col. Moammar Gadhafi." We dropped bombs on Gadhafi's crowd for attacking civilians, and we're prepared to do the same to you! "The coalition has told the rebels that the fog of war will not shield them from possible bombardment by NATO planes and missiles, just as the regime's forces have been punished."

So, having agreed to be the Libyan Liberation Movement Air Force, we're also happy to serve as the Gadhafi Last-Stand Air Force. Say what you like about Barack Obama, but it's rare to find a leader so impeccably multilateralist that he's willing to participate in both sides of a war. It doesn't exactly do much for holding it under budget, but it does ensure that for once we've got a sporting chance of coming out on the winning side. If a coalition plane bombing Gadhafi's forces runs into a coalition plane bombing the rebel forces, are they allowed to open fire on each other? Or would that exceed the U.N. resolution?

Who are these rebels we're simultaneously arming and bombing? Don't worry, the CIA is "gathering intelligence" on them. They should have a clear idea of who our allies are round about the time Mohammed bin Jihad is firing his Kalashnikov and shouting "Death to the Great Satan!" from the balcony of the presidential palace. But America's commander-in-chief thinks they're pretty sound chaps. "The people that we've met with have been fully vetted," says President Obama. "So we have a clear sense of who they are. And so far they're saying the right things. And most of them are professionals, lawyers, doctors – people who appear to be credible."

Credible people with credentials – just like the president! Lawyers, doctors, just like Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaida's No. 2. Maybe among their impeccably credentialed ranks is a credible professional eye doctor like Bashir Assad, the London ophthalmologist who made a successful midlife career change to dictator of Syria. Hillary Rodham Clinton calls young Bashir a "reformer," by which she means presumably that he hasn't (yet) slaughtered as many civilians as his late dad. Assad Sr. killed some 20,000 Syrians at Hama and is said to have pumped hydrogen cyanide through the town: there wasn't a dry eye in the house, as the ophthalmologists say. Baby Assad hasn't done that (yet), so he's a reformer, and we're in favor of those, so we're not arming his rebels.

According to the State Department, Col. Gadhafi's 27-year-old son Khamis is also a "reformer." Or at least he was a few weeks ago, when U.S. officials welcomed him here for a monthlong visit, including meetings at NASA and the Air Force Academy, and front-row seats for a lecture by Deepak Chopra entitled "The Soul of Leadership." Ten minutes of which would have me buckling up the Semtex belt and yelling "Allahu Akbar!," but each to his own. It would have been embarrassing had Khamis Gadhafi still been getting the red-carpet treatment in the U.S. while his dad was getting the red carpet-bombing treatment over in Tripoli. But fortunately a scheduled trip to West Point on Feb. 21 had to be canceled when young Khamis was obliged to cut short his visit and return to Libya to start shooting large numbers of people in his capacity as the commander of a crack special forces unit. Maybe he'll be killed by a pilot who showed him round the Air Force Academy. Small world, isn't it?

Meanwhile, the same CIA currently "gathering intelligence" on these jihadist lawyers, doctors and other allies has apparently been in Libya for some time, arming them, according to a top-secret memo on their eyes-only clandestine operation simultaneously leaked by no fewer than four administration officials to the press. A reader suggested to me that they'd misheard the Warren Zevon song "Send Lawyers, Guns And Money," and were sending guns and money to lawyers. And, if some of the guns and money end up in the hands of "al-Qaida elements," I'm sure Janet Napolitano can have it re-classified as an overseas stimulus bill. In the old days, simpletons like President George W. Bush used to say, "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists." This time round, we're with us and we're with the terrorists, and you can't say fairer than that.

So this isn't your father's war. It's a war with a U.N. resolution and French jets and a Canadian general and the good wishes of the Arab League. It's a war with everything it needs, except a mission. And, if you don't have a mission, it's hard to know when it's accomplished. Defense Secretary Robert Gates insists that regime change is not a goal; President Sarkozy says it is; President Obama's position, insofar as one can pin it down, seems to be that he's not in favor of Gadhafi remaining in power but he isn't necessarily going to do anything to remove him therefrom. According to NBC, Gadhafi was said to be down in the dumps about his prospects until he saw Obama's speech, after which he concluded the guy wasn't serious about getting rid of him, and he perked up. He's certainly not planning on going anywhere. There is an old rule of war that one should always offer an enemy an escape route. Instead, British Prime Minister David Cameron demanded that Gadhafi be put on trial. So the Colonel is unlikely to trust any offers of exile, and has nothing to lose by staying to the bitter end and killing as many people as possible.

Meanwhile, the turbulence in the Middle East has spread to Syria, Kuwait, Yemen, Jordan and beyond. In Egypt, an entirely predictable alliance between the army and the Muslim Brotherhood seems to be emerging. The "Arab Spring" turns out to be a bit more complicated than it looks on CNN, and a CIA that failed to see the bankruptcy of its own pension plan looming is unlikely to be a very useful guide to the various forces in play. For the Western powers to be bogged down in the least-consequential Arab dictatorship's low-grade civil war desultorily providing air support to incompetent al-Qaida sympathizers may be an artful, if expensive, piece of misdirection.

Either that, or we haven't got a clue what we're doing.

Assad a "reformer". Clueless bunch of buffoons
 
What a farce this could turn out to be :o

It may be something more sinister. I don’t trust NATO totally and they may be making ‘heavy weather’ of the opposition as a precursor for when they are begged for ‘boots on the ground’.

To my mind it is obvious idiocy to arm the rebels (who knows who they are) without training in their use. This is where ‘boots on the ground’ come in. No blood is shed in the rebel cause (only training is given, the rebels shed the blood) but ‘boots are on the ground’.

Incidentally, it is only right that the rebels should shed blood, it’s their country and they must fight their own battles.

“Sorry, your son was killed fighting a battle for someone else in a foreign land and not in the interests of his country.” I would be extremely pissed-off.
 
To my mind it is obvious idiocy to arm the rebels (who knows who they are) without training in their use. This is where ‘boots on the ground’ come in. No blood is shed in the rebel cause (only training is given, the rebels shed the blood) but ‘boots are on the ground’.

Incidentally, it is only right that the rebels should shed blood, it’s their country and they must fight their own battles.

“Sorry, your son was killed fighting a battle for someone else in a foreign land and not in the interests of his country.” I would be extremely pissed-off.

You just described the first ten or so years of U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X