Need advise again: ADSL/Router/Wireless

[leonb]

A while back I was convinced to buy the Billion 5102 ADSL router (has a 4 port switch). I now want to set up a wireless network using (preferably) a Linksys wireless solution. The reason being that people seem to increase performance quite a lot using special firmware, and I need a solution to connect over at least 50m.

I was told that already having a router/modem, only a wireless access point is needed (e.g the Linksys WAP54G). It seems, however, that the more people use the wireless router (the Linksys WRT54G), and that there is more scope for increasing the performance. The price difference between these two units is only about R70, so I could just as well buy the wireless router (WRT54G).

Will I have any problems with a setup with two routers (the adsl modem router + the wireless router). Must I disable one of the routers, or how should the setup look? Or is it better the buy the AP only?

Also: At first I will only be connecting wirelessly to one other person. I know that he only needs a wireless adapter, but will it be possible to connect to each other if he also gets himself a wireless router (instead of the adaptor). Will we get a better connection when both of us are using modified firmware to increase the power output of the units? With only a R100-R200 price difference this in any case seems like better value for money (one day he may use it to set up his own network). Any problems with such a setup?

A lot of questions, but thanks for helping

 

[Louisvdw]

The answer in short is Yes.
I have the same solution. ADSL modem/router and the Linksys WRT54G.

The biggest trouble you will have is with the DHCP server and the IP ranges.
Both devices have a DHCP server and is enabled by default. The Linksys has a limited range of IP's it can use internally with it IP Mask (Mask is always 255.255.255.*)

My ADSL router had the better DHCP server (It can set the gateway as well), so I wanted to use it. I had to unplug my PC from the ADSL router, plug it into the Wireless, go to the admin page of the Wireless, disable the DHCP server (I gave it a fixed IP and also Fixed IP to the ADSL router) and save & reboot the wireless router. Plug in the ADSL router and that is it.

This settup took me less that 30 mins to get everything working.

On your question on if you have to disable on of the routers: Yes and No. I did not disable it on the either, but rather pluged my ADSL into the 4 port switch of the Linksys WRT (Not in the WAN port) wherby bypassing it. I also did that because my ADSL router is the DHCP server and I wanted it to be on the network.

Using to Wireless AP (WRT is the best if you want the custom firmware) is the best between two users a long distance away. The biggest reason is that you can add bigger arials to the APs, but most Cards does not have the external arial plugs.

To boost the power is only boosting the output or sending strength, but you need to recieve as well (this is 2 way communication). The only way to boost recieving strength is to have great line of site, shorter distances, or a bigger, better arial. So this means it is better to get a big arial, that to boost your power, but the power helps allot.

If you have any trouble, or more questions, you are welcome to send me a PM.

 

[sihen]

THe Linksys WRT54G rock, I have been using one for ages now, the different firmware's to play with are very very cool and enable the freedom of choice. heh im talking kuk now, all I can say is they are great.

 

[Toby]

I have Posted before on this but would like to review and ensure that I am on the Right Path.

I have Ordered ADSL Line.

My Current view is to Go with a LinkSys ADSL Modem (ADSL2MUE) connected to the LinkSys WRT54G Router via Ethernet Link.

Application is for Internet Connectivity in my Home only with Wireless, and then later to Branch out to a "Mesh", to Share ADSL link with a Neighour.

Maybe Lucky with the Nieghbour being able to connect directly to my AP , but if we need to have AP to AP, then LinkSys seems to Come into its own here, as per Forumites.

Questions.

What is the LinkSys WRT54G like in Single Useage Mode (Clients Connect direct with Wireless only) i.e. No Secondary WRT54G to Connect to as a BackHaul Link, which seems to be this routers REALLY STRONG Point as per Forumites on MYADSL.CO.ZA.

In A Config like above, although router firewall features will stop DOS Types attacks which could eat Bandwidth, could the router initiate a Modem disconnect due to inactivity from Clients, to Preserve BandWidth. Can Router then be set to initiate connect to Internet by ADSL Modem when activity starts from client again. Obviously client should not be running any P2P apps and should be Clean from SpyWare/Virus point of View for this to function.

Has anyone had experience with the ADSL2MUE ADSL Modem from linkSys.
- According to COMSOL, WRT54G and ADSL2MUE have both been approved by ICASA, for what that is worth

If Wireless or Wimax arrive in Zululand, I then only have to replace Modem and Not Router. This is why I am not looking at a Combo unit like Netgear or Linksys WAG54G (I believe that WIMAX will be Dominant SA BroadBand Technology within 2 to 3 years)

Major reason for Going LinkSys is my Experience with CISCO in Corporate World. CISCO are trully ROCK SOLID with very good Support, and I would hope/imagine that CISCO mindset and Philosopies have rubbed of on LinkSys.

 

[Louisvdw]

The Linksys WRT connection to other AP and to clients are both great. You just can't go wrong.

Thw WRT wil NOT be able to disconnect your modem. The modems usually have a setting to disconnect after a timeout that you can set yourself on the modem. The modem also has a setting to Auto Connect when needed. This is what you are lokking for. But the Question remains: Why do you want to disconnect to save bandwidth? If you don't transfer anything, what will eat your bandwith? If anything is going between the modem and ATM, it's like 1byte and is not even a drop in the pool.

I don't know the ADSL2MUE myself, but if it is not a USB modem, you should be OK.

 

[Toby]

If the Modem is Constantly Connected to the Net, and if some spyware or Worm on the net attempts to constantly hit my modem, would that connection attempt not count towards my Cap as the traffic to Going through my DSLAM Port to my Modem.

ADSL2MUE is ethernet and USB. I will use the ethernet Port

This is my reasoning for wanting and auto disconnect when no traffic from inside "my" network.

 

[Louisvdw]

This is a noble idea, but how would the router or modem know if the connection comes from your (browser, ftp, etc) or from the spyware. It will just start the connection when your spyware software ask for it and thus your solution will not work.

The best solution is to have anti-spyware software installed, up-to-date and doing regular scans. The data that spyware does send through the network is very little. If it was allot the Dailup people would detect it very soon, and the idea of spyware is to be undetected (like a spy).

If I were you (and I do the following myself) I would use a good Anti-virus scanner (I have AGV-Free edition) and anti-spyware (Spybot search and destroy), with weekly updates and scans. Don't wory about the disconnects. You will win little and give yourself lots of hassles.

Hope this helps

 

[Toby]

To Clarify.

If Joe Soap in JHB had an infected machine that had spyware and virus's etc etc, and his machine continously attempted to hit Random machines (fully protected with Spyware, Good Anti-virus - FW on ADSL Router etc etc) on the ADSL Network, would the continous attempts to hit machines not count towards the incoming traffic count on the targets machine.

Although, the attacker may not be getting through to the attacked machine, and toughed the targets ADSL Router (And rejected - FW etc etc) would it not count as the traffic has gone through the DSLAM and Touched the target ADSL router.

What is a Valid Traffic Count and an Invalid Traffic Count when it comes to data being rejected at an ADSL Firewall and not even hitting the Machine. Remember it has touched the targeted users TCP/IP Address.

Regarding protection, IT security, Patching and Performance management is part of my Professional function, but one bad apple on a network can increase a network load count. To be Totally Safe, ALL machines must be Clean, AND THE INTERNET IS NOT CLEAN

 

[Turtle]

If Joe Soap in JHB had an infected machine that had spyware and virus's etc etc, and his machine continously attempted to hit Random machines (fully protected with Spyware, Good Anti-virus - FW on ADSL Router etc etc) on the ADSL Network, would the continous attempts to hit machines not count towards the incoming traffic count on the targets machine.

Although, the attacker may not be getting through to the attacked machine, and toughed the targets ADSL Router (And rejected - FW etc etc) would it not count as the traffic has gone through the DSLAM and Touched the target ADSL router.

I am almost 100% certain that such traffic would count as 'usage' from your cap. I don't see how the BW management system could by any practical means disguish 'illegitimate' connection attempts to the machine from legitimate ones. IP traffic is IP traffic. (It definitely counts TCP and UDP, and I'm sure it would count ICMP traffic too .. probably everything.) In practice though this type of traffic is usually pretty minimal, perhaps a few meg a month at most I would guess - certainly nothing to worry about in terms of bandwidth usage.

I suppose a malicious (non-capped e.g. diginet) user could probably deliberately use up someone else's cap in this way as a kind of DoS attack though.

 

[Louisvdw]

I agree with Turtle.

You do have a valid argument with the incoming Data (from the spyware or attacker). It can happen. It is however normally very low data usage.

A DoS attack will have incoming data and it will account to your cap. The question is why someone would like to attack you. Remember that your IP is dynamic and the attacker would have to be specific to your withint the time frame when you have that IP. Most of these type of attacks is on Web servers (that have fixed IPs), but can happen with dynamic IPs (like ADSL) that use DynDNS to host websites.

Spyware on the other hand go out from your network and not really into your network, thus this will make your connections reconnect.

Bottom line is that I think you will win little with this effort. That is also why most (if not all ADSL modems) don't have the disconnect feature you are looking for.

 

[Toby]

As I still have a ADSL Link on Order, I am looking at the possible pitfalls, and in hindsight I may be a bit paranoid on this. Interestingly, the Only ADSL modem that I have found in my investigation that supports Connect/Disconnect in this way is the LinkSys ADSL2MUE ADSL Modem. However, I am going with the LinkSys WAG54G Wireless gateway due to the Cisco heritage. I consider the Modem and Seperate Router may introduce some unwanted complexities.



See attached Section from ADSL2MUE.PDF.

RFC 2516 PPPoE
Some DSL-based ISPs use PPPoE (Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet) to establish Internet connections.
Check with your ISP to see if they use PPPoE. If they do, you will have to enable PPPoE.
• User Name and Password. Enter the User Name and Password provided by your ISP.
• Keep Alive: Redial Period. If you select this option, the Modem will periodically check your Internet
connection. If you are disconnected, then the Modem will automatically re-establish your connection. To
use this option, click the radio button next to Keep Alive. In the Redial Period field, you specify how often
you want the Modem to check the Internet connection. The default Redial Period is 1 minute.
• Connect on Demand: Max Idle Time. You can configure the Modem to disconnect the Internet connection
after it has been inactive for a specified period of time (Max Idle Time). If your Internet connection has
been terminated due to inactivity, Connect on Demand enables the Modem to automatically re-establish
your connection as soon as you attempt to access the Internet again. If you wish to activate Connect on
Demand, click the radio button. In the Max Idle Time field, enter the number of minutes you want to have
elapsed before your Internet connection terminates.

 

[Darth Garth]

However, I am going with the LinkSys WAG54G Wireless gateway due to the Cisco heritage.

There are no Cisco heritage in Linksys products ... they and many others simply resell and repackage solutions developed by their tier 1 supplier Broadcom.

 

[Louisvdw]

Jip. Cisco only owns Linksys, but it does not say that Linksys does not get some expertise with the ownership.

Toby. You will be happy (I hope) to hear that my modem/router (planet ADE3100 @R620) also has the Disconnect Timeout setting. I went and investigated it a bit. Quit nice!
You can also set what will infuence the reset of the timeout timer ,All trafic/ Filtersed trafic. The under filterd trafic you can set it to incoming/outbound or both and then you can set the ports and protocals it listens for as well.

It goes without saying that it has a Auto Reconnect setting, which unfortunately does not have these nice settings as to what traffic/ports should reconnect the modem.

The Planet ADW4300A Wireless ADSL VPN Firewall Router{4XRJ-45,1XRJ11} has the wireless AP builtin and cost R1400.

 

[leonb]

OK, I'm hijacking my thread again . Maybe this should rather be in the WiFi/Wisp section, but I dont want to open another thread.

This is the setup:

My Flat:
The ADSL line, 1 x Billion 5102 ADSL modem/router, 1 x Linksys WRT54G wireless router, the main desktop computer, and (once a week) my girlfriend with her wifi enabled laptop.

My friends' flat:
2 x desktop computers, 1 x Linksys WRT54G wireless router.

Want to setup a network, and share the DSL connection (obviously ). The distance between the two flats is about 40m (maybe 50m) with a direct line of sight (this why I decided on the WRT54 so I can use 3rd party software to boost power - don't want any additional antennas).

Will this work??? Could someone please explain to me, step-by-step, how to make this setup work. Say for the option where I disable the modem's router, and use the WRT as my main router. As much detail as possible - as you might realize I'm still a newbie in networking, etc.

I thought it should be simple, until I read this thread. Don't understand why this particular setup needed more than two AP to make it work???????

http://www.mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=21824

Just please bear with my. As soon as I get this working, I wont bother you guys again.

 

[lilgindauk]

It will work but your signal will decrease severly.
if your using a wi-fi bulit in the notebook. make sure your router is close in center point of your apartment.
Alternatetivly you could get an access point or a bridge. but thats another story!
So heres the lowdown.
You want to share your neighbours connection and pay less per month?
Right..
If your doing that you might want to check out whose in charge of the bills. then that person can have the router in thier house.
I dont get it since most ADSL routers should have a bulit in modem without connecting a modem.
Enough with that stuff

Your freind should disable your router ip(local) and allow his automatically.
You should configure his router with the correct information
go to http://192.168.1.1 --> this is most routers ip by default.
Normally with linksys routers you have to enter a user name and password.
It should be user: admin
password: admin, password
If your neighbour has changed it consult him.
I dont know about s.a's wireless standards since in london we use 2.4656ghz.
Depending on you ISP you have in enter your user name and password then you have to enter your VCI and VPI values including the MTU.
I have no clue on your ISP so you might have to ask them for the values.
Either choose PPPoA or PPPoE. I have no idea except one is an atm and one is an ethernet.
Save the changes and log out.
Remember, your neighbour has a wired connection to his router. via a networking cable
Now the tricky bit!
You need to get a wireless PCI card for your pc, or an access point.
Easy one first.
Beware: install the drivers first before manual installation.
Install the card---> boot up your pc. the box comes up. "welcome to the new hardware wizard" blah blah blah, next
its should automatcially find the drivers. If not. insert the disk with the drivers.
Click on find driver manually.>>> locate the cd>>>find your os>>> find the .dll file which should say driver or something.
Once finished, reboot your os.
Now all ready to go!
Once booted up. On the bottom of your taskbar and icon should appear with a ballon saying "wirless connection(Linksys*****)
Speed: 54mbps or something
Signal strength: Excellent, very good, good, fair, poor,very poor"
If your signal says fair or below you might have a prob(not a big one)
it just means playing with your router arial and finding out its best signal range.
Usually the better signal strength the faster your packets(data) will reach you.
All done
Now configure your dialer
Usually on your connections tab or hardware or whatever. they say you use a *** usb modem or such. click on a TCP/IP connection and hey presto your ready to go!
If not clck on search or add modems. it should normally find it. if not teel the pc its PCI bay and string Values.
Add it then Done
Sign on with your Dialer.
Go to google.com
type in winner
then look inda mirrow

 

[Louisvdw]

leonb, lilgindauk gave a good long description, but I could not follow it very well (sorry lilgindauk).

Siply said. You need to assign the one router (your friends one) to be a client. Yours will be the AP (Access Point) to the network (including the internet). Your friend has to connect both his PCs to the network (the switch in the WRT is great), and you have to do the same. The notebook client will also connect to your AP, which you can connect to the Modem (I take it you have your modem connection to the WRT sorted out). you set the WRT to client under Wireless, Basic Setting, Wireless Mode.

Choose the Channel on both that you want and SSID Broadcast on for now. Once you can connect, you can disable the SSID Broadcast and add encryption so that not everyone can use the Wireless connection.
Use http://192.168.1.1/Site_Suvery.asp on the "plain/default" WRT to see the site survey.

If the client WRT can connect to the AP WRT, you are 90% there. Setting up the PCs and network to use the modem as a gateway sould be easy to do.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[leonb]

Thanks for the help so far guys.

I haven't bought the two WRT54G's yet (will over the weekend), just need to make sure that the WRT54G's will work in this setup.

Is the two WRT54's a good way of doing things?

 

[lilgindauk]

It would, but a wireless card or and ap is much better since a router only sends and receives signals.
The ap picks the signal and acts as a extended router

 

[leonb]

Just to confuse me even more, this is what Linksys support says I must do:

Dear Valued Linksys Customer,

Thank you for contacting Linksys Technical Support.


For you to be able to network the two locations together, you will need another device to your “Friends House”. This will be a WET54G. The reason for this is that the two WRT54G that you have cannot communicate wirelessly. The WET54G will be the one talking to the 1 router. The main router will be the one in your house, the one with the ADSL line.

Here is what you will need to do on the second router (on your friends house):

Just connect a computer to the 2nd router (router that will be set to switch or AP/switch mode) and its power supply. No more, no less.

Launch your Internet Explorer 5 or later version or Netscape Navigator 4 or later version.
On the Address, Search or URL, type: http://192.168.1.1, then hit Enter/Return. A login screen will appear. Type admin for the password and leave the username blank or empty then hit “OK”.

Note: If it doesn’t take admin as the password you might have changed it when you have ran the RUN ME FIRST CD that came with the router so try other passwords.

If you cannot remember the password, I regret to tell you but, you have to reset the router and, reconfigure it again. Next time, remember the password to avoid unnecessary reset and reconfiguration.

To reset the router to factory default 1] Press and hold the reset button for 30 sec., after that 2] Unplug the power keep holding down the reset button for another 30 sec. 3] Then, plug back the power keep holding down the reset button for 30sec., after that 4] Release the reset button.

Note: Disabling the DHCP of the router varies depending on the model number and firmware version of your Linksys Router.

1st DISABLE DHCP SERVER OF THE 2ND ROUTER:

Cisco Interface (If your Setup page has a Cisco Logo)

- Under the Setup Page look for DHCP server then select “Disable”. Click on “Save Settings”. Don’t wait for the previous page to come back, close the browser by pressing Alt+F4.

Regular Linksys Router Interface (If your Setup page has a no Cisco Logo)

- Click on the DHCP Tab > Select “Disable”, then hit Apply > Click Continue. Don’t wait for the previous page to come back, close the browser by pressing Alt+F4.

2nd CHANGE THE DEVICE IP OF THE 2ND ROUTER:

- Under the Setup page changed the Device IP Address / Local IP Address of the router to 192.168.1.2, leave the rest on default settings then hit the Apply button. If it will ask you to CONTINUE click the button. Don’t wait for the previous page to come back, close the browser by pressing Alt+F4. Then reboot or restart the computer until it boots up back again.

3rd CONNECTING THE MAIN ROUTER AND THE 2ND ROUTER:

- Connect a standard CAT-5 cable from one of the regular LAN ports or uplink port of the main router then connect the other end of the CAT-5 cable to one of the regular LAN ports of the second router. And you are all set!

For the 3rd part it will be a little different. Instead of the LAN cable connecting to the 2nd computer and the first computer. You will put in a WET54G to the second router. The WET54G will then communicate wirelessly to the router number 1. The internet port of the second router will not be used anymore.

You can also look at this artice on our website for addidtional reference.

http://linksys.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...HQ9Y2FzY2FkaW5nIHJvdXRlcnM*&p_li=&p_topview=1

Hope this helps. Thank you and have a nice day.

If you have further questions, please contact us at (800) 326-7114 or send us an Email at [email protected], so that we may further assist you.

Sincerely,
Gerald Santiago
Product Support Specialist
Linksys - A Division of Cisco Systems, Inc.
(800) 326-7114
[email protected]


Could someone please for once give me clarity on this issue. Will the two WRT54G's do the job, or do I need other hardware.

Seeing that I haven't bought the two WRT54G wireless routers, is there a more optimal solution (but I do not want to buy more that two wireless routers/adaptors/AP/etc/etc/etc/...)

It cant be this complicated, can it !!??

Please guys - I need to do it this weekend

 

[lilgindauk]

Actually its easier than its seems.
all they tell you to do is two get two different routers since two of the same wont work.
the WRT54G wireless router and the WET54G wireless router.
Remember what i said about your mates router. leave the same.
now for you job. connect the router , the WET on you pc via a networking cable.
Logon to the WET linksys router via http://192.168.1.1
Then on the connections tab, click on bridge or access point, in the drop down box.
You either Have to use LLC or VC, you might want to your isp for them aswell as the vpi and vci.
Once done the access point will pick up the signal.
Then configure your dialer like i explaned before.
Presto its should work

P.s i tried to explain things short and clear as possible.