New learner driver - manual or auto

[Heisenborg]

You want to pass the exam with a manual but never drive one afterwards.

If you never learn to drive a manual you will regret it when you have to drive one

 

[Corelli]

I don’t mind the test itself, I think it does a good enough job.

My issue is that learners test is enough to go out on the road before any private area competency is proven.

I reckon it should be..

1. Competency training in a closed off area.

2. Learners to now apply said competency in the real world.

3. Actual drivers test to give you permanent approval to be on the road.

So many people perpetually rewrite their learners because they never learnt to drive well enough to pass their license and it’s an easy way to legally stay on the road.

Learners is a theory test about signage, and the rules of the road. You learn the rules of the road, and then you can go practice with a licensed driver.

Same with learning to become a yachtsman. First the theory and then the practical. Same with other licenses.

Sounds like many in MyBB just bought their licenses. Explains also why soo many bad drivers on the road that races through traffic circles, and skips stop signs and red robots.

A person who holds a learner’s licence and drives unaccompanied is subject to a fine of R1250 (and 4 demerit points) under AARTO, however there is a twist to this story. Under the current and draft regulations, it is stated that a learner driver is subject to a fine of three times that which is stated. Therefore, in this particular case it would be interesting to see how this provision gets applied and it is more than possible that they will be fined R3750 for this offence.

 

[porchrat]

If possible he should do the manual test. That way he can drive both types of car anyway, even if autos are becoming more popular as the years go on.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Learners is a theory test about signage, and the rules of the road.

It shocks me how little people on MyBB has no clue what the purpose of the learners are for.

Same with learning to become a yachtsman. First the theory and then the practical. Same with other licenses.

Sounds like many in MyBB just bought their licenses. Explains also why soo many bad drivers on the road that races through traffic circles, and skips stop signs and red robots.

I guess if I do an audit most here drive a BMW or a Bakkie. This is sooo bad.

I know exactly what it’s for.

My problem is that it allows you to go on the road WITH NO PRACTICAL experience whatsoever operating heavy machinery.

Any industry you would learn to do your practical stuff in a closed space away from everyone else and the public…but driving a 1+ ton car? No just write this here theory and off you go legally allowed to drive anywhere and everywhere even if you’ve never touched a car before.

You question me…yet fail at basic reading comprehension.

I’m simply advocating some means of practical is done in a PRIVATE scape before being let out on the road and doing public harm as we see happening on so often.

****

Aah good I see you learned to read and deleted your other absurd post before I could quote it.

 

[NR7]

And yet most people don’t know how to use ABS.

It's automatic though. I'd say its the opposite, that people don't know how to emergency brake in a car without ABS, hence why ABS came about anyway.

 

[NR7]

All this talk about manuals reminds me of this gem, Senna truly made it look easy.

 

[SauRoNZA]

It's automatic though. I'd say its the opposite, that people don't know how to emergency brake in a car without ABS, hence why ABS came about anyway.

And that’s why people don’t know how to use it.

Ask most people how to make use of ABS they’ll tell you it’s just automatic and “just works” and they’ll be the very same people to lift their foot the moment it kicks back and vibrates in everything but the most extreme of shock nervous response moments.

To really use ABS you need to stand on the brakes like an idiot and never lift off and then steer accordingly. Most people don’t know this and don’t do it and hence still plenty of accidents about.

 

[Corelli]

I know exactly what it’s for.

My problem is that it allows you to go on the road WITH NO PRACTICAL experience whatsoever operating heavy machinery.

Any industry you would learn to do your practical stuff in a closed space away from everyone else and the public…but driving a 1+ ton car? No just write this here theory and off you go legally allowed to drive anywhere and everywhere even if you’ve never touched a car before.

You question me…yet fail at basic reading comprehension.

I’m simply advocating some means of practical is done in a PRIVATE scape before being let out on the road and doing public harm as we see happening on so often.

****

Aah good I see you learned to read and deleted your other absurd post before I could quote it.

Normally heavy machinery is used on a farm, or a mine etc. So unless you drive into a cow. As for trucks etc. They will only teach you on.

Thats why you go do the learners test which is a theory test. And then you have to book with a driving instructor who will not let you drive off by yourself, but most likely take you to a parking area for learning the basics first, and only when he feels youre confident, then will allow you to drive side streets and eventually the freeway.

Most of the harm comes not so much from learners but idiot drivers, like an idiot who dropped his phone while in his X5, then was looking down where he dropped it while accelerating, went straight through my boundary wall, and pancaked both my cars including destroying my garage wall. And he has been driving for 40 years and had zero insurance. So because of that my premium went up 130%. I wasnt even home.

Most accidents are a mix of drunken driving, carelessness and trying to show off on the road, like the idiots who end up in peoples yards because a traffic circle is not illuminated like a Christmas tree, even though there are about 4 signs ahead say slow down there is a traffic circle, and the limit is 60, but they are doing 150kmph in a 60 zone. And then their friend records the circle and say how bad it is, but then he turns on the go straight lane too. Yip trying to show off.

What they need to do, is ban reckless drivers from driving as they do in Europe. Loose 12 points and you loose your license for the year. Do it a few times and your license gets cancelled completely.

 

[Steamy Tom]

I don’t mind the test itself, I think it does a good enough job.

My issue is that learners test is enough to go out on the road before any private area competency is proven.

I reckon it should be..

1. Competency training in a closed off area.

2. Learners to now apply said competency in the real world.

3. Actual drivers test to give you permanent approval to be on the road.

So many people perpetually rewrite their learners because they never learnt to drive well enough to pass their license and it’s an easy way to legally stay on the road.

You can't drive a car/truck with only a learners without a licensed driver sitting next to you, its only really a loophole with a motorcycle

 

[Corelli]

Thing with Manual cars are they are horrible with the new driving aids in the more fancier cars. Your engine may cut out. Especially with self-parking and traffic stop start.

So look from about 10 minutes into his review of the Manual Golf 8

And then check how the Mercedes A Class does it from about 7m52s onwards.

 

[NR7]

And that’s why people don’t know how to use it.

Ask most people how to make use of ABS they’ll tell you it’s just automatic and “just works” and they’ll be the very same people to lift their foot the moment it kicks back and vibrates in everything but the most extreme of shock nervous response moments.

To really use ABS you need to stand on the brakes like an idiot and never lift off and then steer accordingly. Most people don’t know this and don’t do it and hence still plenty of accidents about.

Strongly disagree, I've never found someone who lifts OFF the brake in a panic. Always slamming it, seem plenty of locked brakes over the years.
Plus with EBA now the force required in an emergency is even less.

Plenty of accidents these days are not from people who don't know how to drive their car, but rather from not knowing how to drive their car around other cars.
Hence why I also agree with your suggestion that learners should have some additional time in a private area to practice.
10 years ago I wanted to practice at a local track by myself and they quoted me R10k for an afternoon. There really should be more affordable facilities for learners to practice besides a dead slow parking lot and the real world.

 

[Corelli]

 

[Corelli]

Look, once the kid has the license, its between you/him and the insurance company haha.

 

[rh1]

Thanks for all the comments.

Some thoughts on this:
- My son's cousin is the same age. They live in Canada and there you can get a driver license at 17. There everything is auto only and not him nor any of his buddies are even considering learning to drive a manual car.
- Driving a manual transmission car is not a sign of masculinity - probably the exact opposite.
- I received my driving license in 1992 when I turned 18 but started driving long before that on gravel farm roads. I owned plenty of cars during the years. The last time I have owned a manual car was a good 7 years ago and I don't foresee myself going back to manual ever again. There is no joy in sitting on the N1 in peak hour traffic for an hour shifting between first and second. The only time a manual is worth having is if you own a M3 and drive it on a twisty mountain road - that is it .... there is no other time having to continuously shift gears qualify as "enjoyment".
- Having had both "proper" auto (including dual clutch and torque converters) and CVT, I prefer CVT for its smoothness. As a matter of fact both my current cars (Honda and Kia) are CVT.
- Manual models are dwindling in first world countries and I do believe that the advent of electric cars will result in the manual transmission technology becoming even more obscure in the next few years.
- We (RSA) are behind with still plenty of manual models on the road. The average age of a car in SA is between 11 and 13 years so a new manual car bought today will be on the road for a long time still.
- Driving is not difficult but getting the hang of clutch control, smooth gear changes and especially changing gears before turns take some practise and most of us actually only learned how to drive properly after we received our license, and you are exposed to a variety of road conditions and on-road situations.

If I am in a position to buy him a car, it will be an auto - I will probably give him my car as my wife and I should be able to get along with a single car. I will get him comfortable on the road (he can drive but without a learners he has never driven in traffic) with the auto and then send him to driving school to get comfortable with manual and get a drivers license that allow him to drive manual for the odd chance he does have to operate such a model.

You are correct.

If you are in any of the first world countries, auto would be the right choice.

My experience across multiple companies, in SA, rental cars are always manual. Alot of company vehicles are as well.

Any professional type work will require you to travel. Companies are not interested in paying extra for automatic, unless it is for the Company Execs.

**** happens all the time, and he might have to drive a manual in an emergency.

Learning to drive manual is still useful in South Africa and for the near future. It is not that much harder to learn.

I never drove a car before going for 5 1hour lesson with he & she driving school in Parow before passing out.

Yes, my family did not own cars. So had to pay to learn and did not have the luxury to fail/go for more lessons.

 

[Paul Kemp]

Europe is still dominated by manual cars with only a few exceptions.

 

[SauRoNZA]

You can't drive a car/truck with only a learners without a licensed driver sitting next to you, its only really a loophole with a motorcycle

The other driver isn’t a copilot with their own controls though so it near as makes no difference if they are there or not.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Strongly disagree, I've never found someone who lifts OFF the brake in a panic. Always slamming it, seem plenty of locked brakes over the years.
Plus with EBA now the force required in an emergency is even less.

Plenty of accidents these days are not from people who don't know how to drive their car, but rather from not knowing how to drive their car around other cars.
Hence why I also agree with your suggestion that learners should have some additional time in a private area to practice.
10 years ago I wanted to practice at a local track by myself and they quoted me R10k for an afternoon. There really should be more affordable facilities for learners to practice besides a dead slow parking lot and the real world.

Go attend some advanced driving days and you’ll see pretty much everyone fails the ABS test the first time and usually also while failing to steer at the same time and then need to be actively taught how to use it effectively.

The other one everyone gets wrong is the exponential increase in stopping distances between 80, 120 and 160.

Sadly these thing can only be taught practically. You can do theory all day and it won’t sink in for anyone.


Which is why I think it’s paramount to have some kind of practical exposure before even being allowed to sit a learners test.

And that’s just cars. Don’t get me started on motorcycles which is an even bigger **** show since they fall over by themselves.

 

[Steamy Tom]

The other driver isn’t a copilot with their own controls though so it near as makes no difference if they are there or not.

Well, yes and no. Sure they can't physically intervene other than pulling a handbrake or grabbing the steering wheel (which can make a big difference) but they can guide the person (which can also make a big difference). Kind of seems silly to use the "loop hole" and perpetually rewrite your learners but always require a licensed driver to drive with you just to be able to drive legally without completing your learners, easier ways to drive "legally" that will cost you less money and time in the long run, like just buying your license, and yes I know that isn't legal

 

[SauRoNZA]

Well, yes and no. Sure they can't physically intervene other than pulling a handbrake or grabbing the steering wheel (which can make a big difference) but they can guide the person (which can also make a big difference). Kind of seems silly to use the "loop hole" and perpetually rewrite your learners but always require a licensed driver to drive with you just to be able to drive legally without completing your learners, easier ways to drive "legally" that will cost you less money and time in the long run, like just buying your license, and yes I know that isn't legal

Grabbing the steering wheel has a 50/50 chance of going horribly wrong and the handbrake doubly so.

Since you are only fined and not criminally charged it’s an easy enough loophole.

Certainly more prevalent among motorcycles though where you don’t need the copilot in the first place.

But yes this is assuming they bothered with any paperwork at all.

My point was actually more that they are physically incapable of passing a license test and therefore keep redoing their learners…which just shows how absurd it is to have a theory test only.

You’ll note I never used the term loophole.